The Dundee United Thread 22/23

[Pull My Strings]

3 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

I did earlier: it's not entirely accurate (but it is, of course, the BBC) in that the writer implies he made a sacrifice "spending time away from home at West Ham, Sheffield United and NAC Breda in the Netherlands."

Or maybe you could argue it is, as he maybe went for interviews there. But then the article mentions "stints in England and the Netherlands"..............

Don't feed the troll, ffs.

[Pull My Strings]

2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I have no doubt that the wording is genuine.

Not sure if any such loan would be secured and where said security would rank in relation to other secured debt.  I get the feeling it will be unsecured and as such would have no greater ranking than any other unsecured debt.  IIRC even the government* are no longer preferred creditors in the event of administration/liquidation.  I was only partly joking before; I think the only benefit would be that the SG would get a marginally bigger share due to the interest being added to the principal.

*ETA by that I mean the Revenue.

The loan isn't secured. There aren't any secured loans.

[Dunfermline Arab]

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

[Ludo*1]

2 minutes ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

Wind and pish.

[locheedee]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I have no doubt that the wording is genuine.

Not sure if any such loan would be secured and where said security would rank in relation to other secured debt.  I get the feeling it will be unsecured and as such would have no greater ranking than any other unsecured debt.  IIRC even the government* are no longer preferred creditors in the event of administration/liquidation.  I was only partly joking before; I think the only benefit would be that the SG would get a marginally bigger share due to the interest being added to the principal.

*ETA by that I mean the Revenue.

I suspect that may well be the case but its inclusion suggests they either believe they would be able to retrieve the funds in full and with interest or at the very least would hold out for the highest possible amount in the event of a club going into administration.

I guess we will only find out should one of the clubs that have taken out a loan go into administration. Unless one of the other clubs has significant unreported financial problems the two most likely candidates to test that are yourselves and 'the Rangers'.

 

[Granny Danger]

10 minutes ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

I could write you a list of “astute businessmen” who have lost a fortune in Scottish football.

1 minute ago, locheedee said:

I suspect that may well be the case but its inclusion suggests they either believe they would be able to retrieve the funds in full and with interest or at the very least would hold out for the highest possible amount in the event of a club going into administration.

I guess we will only find out should one of the clubs that have taken out a loan go into administration. Unless one of the other clubs has significant unreported financial problems the two most likely candidates to test that are yourselves and 'the Rangers'.

 

@Pull My Strings has already stated the loan is not secured.  I tend to accept this.  I’d imagine it would also show on the entry on Companies House website.

[Pull My Strings]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

I could write you a list of “astute businessmen” who have lost a fortune in Scottish football.

@Pull My Strings has already stated the loan is not secured.  I tend to accept this.  I’d imagine it would also show on the entry on Companies House website.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC013690/charges

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC013690/charges

Yeah that’s what I was referring to.

[Dee Man]

21 minutes ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

[coprolite]

42 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I have no doubt that the wording is genuine.

Not sure if any such loan would be secured and where said security would rank in relation to other secured debt.  I get the feeling it will be unsecured and as such would have no greater ranking than any other unsecured debt.  IIRC even the government* are no longer preferred creditors in the event of administration/liquidation.  I was only partly joking before; I think the only benefit would be that the SG would get a marginally bigger share due to the interest being added to the principal.

*ETA by that I mean the Revenue.

HMRC are preferred for PAYE deductions VAT etc that are paid by other people but only collected by the business.  I'd be amazed if any football clubs paid corporation tax, so for football clubs, HMRC are a preferred creditor. This is a recent change. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by coprolite
I apologise for being extremely tedious

[Granny Danger]

Just now, coprolite said:

HMRC are preferred for PAYE deductions VAT etc that are paid by other people but only collected by the business.  I'd be amazed if any football clubs paid corporation tax, so for football clubs, HMRC are a preferred creditor. This is a recent change. 

Fair enough.  I thought that had previously been the case but was changed a few years back.  Happy to be corrected.

Way off topic but we’ve recently stopped having to pay VAT to our VAT registered construction sub contractors and now include it in our own returns.  The logic of it is baffling, but hey ho.

 

[Dee Bliss]

1 hour ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

Virtually every club is deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent My dab mate told me 5 years ago you’s had the best youth system on Europe your club will struggle to improve on that

[Dundee Hibernian]

1 hour ago, Pull My Strings said:

Don't feed the troll, ffs.

Do you mean Richard Winton, BBC 'sports' writer, is the troll? Nothing surprises me.

[ArabianKnight]

@Granny Danger quest for a Scandinavian signing is about to Finnish.

 

Thank f**k I've been saving that for a while. 

[PartyFears2]

10 day quarantine I assume?

[Tannadeechee]

Fee agreed for Niskanen, and bid turned down for McMann from Hamilton. He's a left back so Robson must be away.

[locheedee]

Pmsl, awwh thanks Szammo - glad to see the truth bothers you so much you've got your red dotting finger out for me too, I'm touched

 

Eta - This one too, you really need to get a better hobby. If you can't handle a bit of discourse and discussion with differing opinions maybe a football forum isnt the place for you.

Edited August 6, 2021 by locheedee

[Napper2]

1 hour ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

A few clubs have tried the produce young talent and sell them on plan. it doesn't seem a bad idea. However, is it profitable? I mean in the sense of a business plan where the owner gets his investment back? In recent history United sold quite a few players for decent money, and yet, they still went in the red. Subsequently bailed out lay an owner who has pumped millions in to keep them afloat. As for DFC planning (whether it happens is another question) to build a new stadium, that seems as prudent a business plan as hoping to produce a conveyor belt of talent you can sell on for big bucks. Dens is well past it and a new stadium with businesses and a housing development that the club can make money from seems sensible to me. Take a look along the road at St Johnstone. They ditched Muirton and are now a well run club that gets income from their ground on none match days. Dundee had a similar plan to United's current scheme back in 2003. Difference being, the club would source players from abroad and sell them on... look how that turned out..'m sure the yank in charge at Tannadice is a much better businessman than I will ever be..but, I thought that about the Marrs as well.

[ArabianKnight]

That finnish winger has been on the cards since the end of June. 

[ArabFC]

2 hours ago, Dunfermline Arab said:

I think some people forget that Mark Ogren is a very astute businessman. He completed an unbelievable amount of due diligence and had a LONG TERM strategy for the club. Yes, derailed slightly by the events of the last 18 months, but there's barely a business in the world that's not had to regroup and reassess. United aren't a hobby for him, it's a business. 

Hibs are pressing hard for £5 million for Doig. Is it completely inconceivable that Utd have a few players of that ilk coming through in the next few seasons? No. The club strategy is set in stone. Read the article with Goldie in The Athletic and you understand that United are deadly serious about producing a conveyor belt of talent. More than can be said for the Dee's who want to build a new stadium that they'll simply never fill. All these Dee's talking about United debt and they can't see that a Camperdown Stadium is more than an extravagance for a club who have the structure of a pub team. 

f**k off Tony!

Is it inconceivable that we'll sell a player for £5m in the near future? Well, yes. A few of them? You're mental!

We got half of that for Andy fucking Robertson and not much more for Gauld who (at the time) looked the best talent to come out of Scotland for years. And despite also selling Armstrong, Ciftci, GMS and having the Souttars on the books, we were still in debt.

And what are the chances of holding on to good kids these days? Scott Banks looked a prospect - how much did we get?

Kerr Smith might be a prospect, but all the big clubs were circling before his 16th birthday - he's signed on, but you can bet your ass there'll be a clause in his contract letting him go for a 'reasonable figure.

If you think a club like United can make millions (net) from kids, you're a fool. Simples.

Edited August 6, 2021 by ArabFC