WoSFL Premier Division thread

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7 hours ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Result Predictions

 

Arthurlie v Gartcain - On paper Gartcairn should win however factor in Arthurlie fighting for their lives down the bottom, I would put this down as a draw. Gartcairn are too far adrift for the league and for me it is more about building for next season for them. 

 

Talbot v Hurlford - I think this is hard to predict, Talbot on a good run, Hurlford on decent run too. I personally find this a hard one to pick and would go for hurlford to win by a goal. 

 

Beith v Darvel - both teams very much going for the league now, I think this could be a game both teams dont want to lose and would probably settle for a draw as with games in hand they will still over take Clydebank if they win them. 

 

Benburb v Irvine Meadow - Bens are notoriously hard to predict, Irvine Meadow now almost definitely down however they might have one final push to stay up, I personally hope that they do stay up along with the other Ayrshire teams in the dog fight. I think Bens will win this one but I don't think much will be in it.

 

Clydebank v Troon - Clydebank have been in free fall in the last couple of weeks however I would expect a comfortable win for them at the weekend, for me they need to have a quick start or the fans will start to get nervous and get on the teams back. Players/managers now under a lot of pressure to get results. I think this could be the weekend that they steady the ship.

 

Cumnock v Largs - I fancy Largs for this one, Cumnock will be hurting from derby demolition last weekend, with Cumnock trigger happy committee I am sure Murdi will be coming under pressure if the result doesn't go his way. 

 

KRR v Glens - Very much the battle to stay up, Glens when I have seen them have been better than league position suggests. I think Glens might get all points this weekend. 

 

Pollok v St Cadocs - For me St Cadocs need all 3 points to give them a sniff of a title chance now. I would back St Cadocs for this one. Pollok have obviously got a few issues in the back ground, with a few players having moved on and a couple more already signed pre-contracts with other clubs for next season. 

I reckon Hurlford will be our hardest game in a while.  Any sort of win will do me fine. 

[11TH MAY 1991]

How many times will the dreaded Reeky Sporran try to defend the Hampden experience? Jeezo, him and Roobarb on the same thread, what have the rest of us done to deserve that?

[Thejackdaw]

It's Definitely looking like the form team In Talbot's league title this season,  they're surging up the rails and into the good few furlongs as real league winning material,  obviously the bankies, darvel, st cadocs and beith will respect them but they're looking bloody good.....

[not man of the match]

9 hours ago, Thejackdaw said:

It's Definitely looking like the form team In Talbot's league title this season,  they're surging up the rails and into the good few furlongs as real league winning material,  obviously the bankies, darvel, st cadocs and beith will respect them but they're looking bloody good.....

Always felt Talbot would come good. Even when they weren't winning, they weren't conceding goals which is always a good foundation. Like us, they can't afford many more defeats.

[Shanner]

11 minutes ago, not man of the match said:

Always felt Talbot would come good. Even when they weren't winning, they weren't conceding goals which is always a good foundation. Like us, they can't afford many more defeats.

I've only just began to think we can challenge for the league. Suddenly the nerves are kicking in ahead of games! 

We could be back out of it with a couple of poor results but the turnaround has been a pleasant surprise.

The Talbot support has been excellent with the new lads this season and they've come good for us. We just need to stay supportive and remember that being anywhere near the top of the division after such a massive transition is a bonus. 

[not man of the match]

6 minutes ago, Shanner said:

I've only just began to think we can challenge for the league. Suddenly the nerves are kicking in ahead of games! 

We could be back out of it with a couple of poor results but the turnaround has been a pleasant surprise.

The Talbot support has been excellent with the new lads this season and they've come good for us. We just need to stay supportive and remember that being anywhere near the top of the division after such a massive transition is a bonus. 

It show the real quality of Tommy Sloan for me.

[rhubarb1974]

11 minutes ago, not man of the match said:

Always felt Talbot would come good. Even when they weren't winning, they weren't conceding goals which is always a good foundation. Like us, they can't afford many more defeats.

Personally think damage was done early doors for Talbot, however the rate teams are dropping points you never know. 

 

I still think it will be an all Ayrshire top 3. Beith, ourselves and Talbot. Fancy Beith for the title hard to call who will finish on top between us and Talbot. I think we have the stronger starting 11 however Talbot have the stronger squad, at this stage in season when injuries mount and suspensions tot up that may be the difference. 

 

Bankies will still make the top 6 they have enough points on the board. Either St Cadocs or Clydebank drop out the title race depending on results in their two games against each other. It seems strange to rule out Clydebank in title race giving how far ahead they are on points however I think as a team they are naive and lack the winning edge. Although they criticise the Scottish Junior Cup, I think proving they can compete at that level would go along way in improving their chances in the league, I personally think the committee at Clydebank are not doing themselves any favours in the long run by not competing for it. 

 

I am sure Gordon is a good manager and comes across well on his interview, don't know him personally so other than what I see at matches/interviews I can't comment on him as a person. Has he signed enough winners (assuming he makes the calls)? Is there that ugly spine in the team that you want when you are in the trenches? 

 

I look at 2 players in our team Gee and Leishman, you could argue under MK we had better players than Gee (I don't think we had a better keeper), however the difference between these two players and the ones under MK is year after year they were use to the pressure of winning, they had big crowds to play in front of and all their playing days it was drilled into them they must win and they are expected to win, for me this is more important if trying to get out the division like Clydebank are rather than signing perhaps better players however not players with that winning edge. The only thing I critised MK for was signing players that didn't know the level, I personally think we would have went up if we signed the best players at that level rather than players from championship/league 1 etc...

[PollokGang]

Clydebank like Pollok two seasons ago. Points on the board but not going to win it as dropped too many points against title rivals. Daft long term contract for an underachieving manager too. 
 

Feel it’ll be a two horse race with Darvel and Beith. Talbot could squeeze in but a lot of cup football could hinder them. I’m sure Talbot will prioritise the Junior Cup. Have to applaud Tommy Sloan as he’s done it again. 

Edited March 7 by PollokGang

[rhubarb1974]

1 minute ago, PollokGang said:

Clydebank like Pollok two seasons ago. Points on the board but not going to win it as dropped too many points against title rivals. Daft long term contract for an underachieving manager too. 
 

Feel it’ll be a two horse race with Darvel and Beith. Talbot could squeeze in but a lot of cup football could hinder them. I’m sure Talbot will prioritise the Junior Cup. Have to applaud Tommy Sloan as he’s done it again. 

I would still favour Beiths chances in the league. 

 

I remember seeing the Talbot signings coming through and being like, who? They never signed a player other than the boy Slooves that I knew much about, even the boy Boyd I never seen much in him at IM. I think that is probably what separates Tommy Sloan from the rest of managers the ability to see something others can't. I will be honest I thought and I am sure many Talbot fans thought that a successful season for them is staying up. 

 

I don't know how true it is however when you look at their players I can believe they have the youngest average age in the league. 

 

I personally thought up to a few weeks ago all our focus would be on the Scottish to try and win it for the first time, the league is also very much in a grasp so unsure what the committee will prioritise or do they go all out and go for both? Personally, the Scottish would mean more to me. I have never wanted to move up to the LL, if we won the league I would happily forfeit our place in the play off. 

[not man of the match]

1 hour ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Bankies will still make the top 6 they have enough points on the board. Either St Cadocs or Clydebank drop out the title race depending on results in their two games against each other. It seems strange to rule out Clydebank in title race giving how far ahead they are on points however I think as a team they are naive and lack the winning edge. Although they criticise the Scottish Junior Cup, I think proving they can compete at that level would go along way in improving their chances in the league, I personally think the committee at Clydebank are not doing themselves any favours in the long run by not competing for it. 

 

I am sure Gordon is a good manager and comes across well on his interview, don't know him personally so other than what I see at matches/interviews I can't comment on him as a person. Has he signed enough winners (assuming he makes the calls)? Is there that ugly spine in the team that you want when you are in the trenches? 

 

 

The fans don't want to compete in it, they own the club. 

Of course Gordon makes the calls. I do think we lack a bit more ugly dig that is required for a title battle but it's always been a long term build since he came in and we've improved year on year both on and off the park.

[jimbaxters]

1 hour ago, PollokGang said:

Clydebank like Pollok two seasons ago. Points on the board but not going to win it as dropped too many points against title rivals. Daft long term contract for an underachieving manager too. 
 

Feel it’ll be a two horse race with Darvel and Beith. Talbot could squeeze in but a lot of cup football could hinder them. I’m sure Talbot will prioritise the Junior Cup. Have to applaud Tommy Sloan as he’s done it again. 

That's a great point actually. IIRC he was given a contract extension earlier this season when things were going really well, maybe after the win against Beith? Probably jumped the gun and got carried away.

[rhubarb1974]

13 minutes ago, not man of the match said:

The fans don't want to compete in it, they own the club. 

Of course Gordon makes the calls. I do think we lack a bit more ugly dig that is required for a title battle but it's always been a long term build since he came in and we've improved year on year both on and off the park.

Failing to be able to compete in competitions I think damages your chances of success or ability to move up the leagues. 

 

I think it is arrogance that stops the team competing in the Scottish. Something can't be beneath you when you have never been at the top of that level. 

 

In your current squad how many medals have been won in total by the full squad, West Prem medals including when it was west juniors, West of Scotland Cup, Scottish Cups, South Challenge. I don't know the answer and I am curious, this doesn't need to be won when at Clydebank. A lack of medals often goes hand in hand with an unsuccessful team.

[rhubarb1974]

22 minutes ago, not man of the match said:

The fans don't want to compete in it, they own the club. 

Of course Gordon makes the calls. I do think we lack a bit more ugly dig that is required for a title battle but it's always been a long term build since he came in and we've improved year on year both on and off the park.

When you say improved on the park, you finished 4th last season if my memory is correct. An improvement is only 3rd and above in that case? You got to one final last year none this year due to early exit from the competitions and inability to compete on more than one front. I know the counter argument will be you are focused on the league and promotion however I would argue that the league is weaker this season than last so if sole focus is on the league, failure to win it this season will be a failure. 

 

We aren't as strong as last season however I feel we have more of chance of winning it this year than last. Pollok are weaker than last season, I am sure some of their fans will think it is having a go at them it is not just an opinion. Talbot has been well documented as a work in progress and had an unusually high turn over of players. Beith also weaker than last season and have lost a number of key players from this time last year. Based on that if Clydebank have improved on the park I do not see it, they are starting to get an aging squad etc...this very much is there best chance of promotion, I think failing to win it this year will be devastating for them. 

 

I am not sure how strong we will be next season, I think we may have one final year in us before we start to fall away, hopefully I am wrong. I think Gartcairn will get stronger, I think St Cadocs will get stronger and I think Talbot will get stronger, all 3 of those teams have money to spend, out of the 3 of them it is only Talbot that have still to spend. 

[beith19]

The folk that wrote Talbot off earlier in the season clearly don't have much memory or knowledge of this level. Winning runs wins leagues, it is as simple as that. Pollok in mid-2000s had a poor start but their quality shone through and they had an incredible run. We had an incredible run January onwards last year blowing a lot of teams away.

Premier is definitely improving in quality each year and getting more competitive. Bankies have an incredible squad, they just need to recover from their blip that all teams have and go again but as they always say the first big trophy is the hardest to win. Difference in our players mentality after winning the West back in 2009 was quite marked, always good enough but knowing/proving they could was key to future success.

[Kilbowies Finest]

4 hours ago, rhubarb1974 said:

 

 

Whilst I often disagree with you on here about much of what you post you are actually pretty spot on in your analysis of The Bankies and the areas of weakness in the side that will ( I feel ) prevent us from winning the league with this current squad of players. Having watched The Bankies for over 40 odd years now at several levels of football we have often won plaudits from other teams , coaches and fans about being a "nice side to watch" or a team that plays "good football" but as you have alluded to "good football" and "winning football" don't always go hand in hand

I remember watching Bankies sides of old scoring goals for fun similar to the likes of Keegan and Ardiles Newcastle Sides or Tommy Burns side when he was in charge at Celtic. We would then come up against a Dunfermline side with a Norrie McCathie or a Falkirk side with a Stuart Burgess or John Hughes and get bullied and lose 1-0

I mentioned in our own forum that I feel we are too soft at times and as you say Rhubarb maybe lack players who have won things and know what it takes to do this - at this moment in time I feel that Darvel , Beith and Talbot have more of these players than we do and it shows.

When I think back to last season when Beith came to Holm Park in March we still had an outside chance of challenging at the top but the away side turned in a fantastic performance on the night marshalled by a defensive masterclass from Scott Rough and Danny O'Neill at the back - they had one real chance in the game and with a quality striker like Josh Fowler up front they took it - they didn't play great but they got the job done and that is something in the last month Bankies have been unable to do. I commented that maybe we have to look at the structure of our side and realise that for every ball player you need a water carrier beside him to do the spade work - currently at Clydebank I feel we have lots of the former and maybe not so many of the latter- it will maybe require a change in mindset - and possible even a change in management to address this. Budgets will always play a part in this and ultimately the best teams usually have the best players - there are several players in the division who I would take in a minute at Clydebank but finances would have a part to play in that.

I am not saying that we need to become an overly physical or "dirty" side but we have to be prepared to do the dirty work and roll up the sleeves when the going gets tough - if we don't we will not be winning anything anytime soon.

 

I 

 

Edited March 7 by Kilbowies Finest

[jimbaxters]

3 hours ago, rhubarb1974 said:

I think it is arrogance that stops the team competing in the Scottish. 

 

This statement has always been, is currently and will always be, true.

[Shanner]

2 hours ago, beith19 said:

The folk that wrote Talbot off earlier in the season clearly don't have much memory or knowledge of this level. Winning runs wins leagues, it is as simple as that. Pollok in mid-2000s had a poor start but their quality shone through and they had an incredible run. We had an incredible run January onwards last year blowing a lot of teams away.

Premier is definitely improving in quality each year and getting more competitive. Bankies have an incredible squad, they just need to recover from their blip that all teams have and go again but as they always say the first big trophy is the hardest to win. Difference in our players mentality after winning the West back in 2009 was quite marked, always good enough but knowing/proving they could was key to future success.

I was writing them off because I have seen plenty of trophy winning Talbot sides and what we were seeing for the first three months of the season was far, far removed from that. We really were struggling, although I get the impression folk on here thought the Talbot fans saying that we're at the mind games. 

We've been playing increasingly well since new year and have built a bit of momentum but we still only pick up three points for a win and still required several snookers. The real reason we're back in the hunt is that the lifelines have been arriving thick and fast due to the sketchy form of the leading pack and long may that continue!

[rhubarb1974]

23 minutes ago, Kilbowies Finest said:

 

Is there pressure on the boss to deliver? I would imagine it could be costly to remove him giving that he has a new contract. 

 

What are the criteria the club set out for the manager/team? I would thought that promotion was top of the list, if they fail to better 4th spot then they are no further forward a year down the line. 

 

Bigger clubs such as Pollok have ended up in a bad way trying to push things forward and recruiting the wrong type of players/characters. We have no where near the support of the like of Pollok/Talbot even Bankies to a lesser extent so we are more reliant on funders to compete at that level. 

 

How many goes do the board give the team at promotion? I theory play offs should be easier, the better East of Scotland sides will be in the LL, the SoS offer very little in way of competition. The difficult part is winning the league. One thing I like about Clydebank is their stats online, A win percentage of just over 50% I don't think is good enough as manager. 

 

It has been proven time and time again throwing money at a team isn't a sure way to guarantee success. I would say we have been one of the higher spenders in recent years, all we have to show for it is 1 league title which we won the year after covid as we were throwing money around and other clubs were keeping things tight. I wouldn't like to guess how much has been spent under the JG reign, I don't think the true cost will ever be known however in terms of return on investment I think it has been poor. 

 

On the other hand Talbot are meant to be significantly cash rich however are never massive spenders, Beith are another team that never seem to be throwing stupid money around however have a manager that is well versed with the league at this level. Are these two clubs just better run? You can't put Talbots formula for success down to luck certainly not after 20 years of Tommy Sloan in charge.

 

There is no doubt we have wasted money however one thing I would say in our defense we have a far improved ground than what we had 6/7 years ago, other clubs like St Cadocs that seem to be big spenders still don't have a ground of their own yet. 

[not man of the match]

4 hours ago, rhubarb1974 said:

Failing to be able to compete in competitions I think damages your chances of success or ability to move up the leagues. 

 

I think it is arrogance that stops the team competing in the Scottish. Something can't be beneath you when you have never been at the top of that level. 

 

In your current squad how many medals have been won in total by the full squad, West Prem medals including when it was west juniors, West of Scotland Cup, Scottish Cups, South Challenge. I don't know the answer and I am curious, this doesn't need to be won when at Clydebank. A lack of medals often goes hand in hand with an unsuccessful team.

It's nothing to do with arrogance, it's about making the choices that we see best for our club. We chose to leave the Juniors and move to the WoS, we left the Junior Cup behind as part of that move.

No idea of how many medals are in the squad.

4 hours ago, rhubarb1974 said:

When you say improved on the park, you finished 4th last season if my memory is correct. An improvement is only 3rd and above in that case? You got to one final last year none this year due to early exit from the competitions and inability to compete on more than one front. I know the counter argument will be you are focused on the league and promotion however I would argue that the league is weaker this season than last so if sole focus is on the league, failure to win it this season will be a failure. 

 

We aren't as strong as last season however I feel we have more of chance of winning it this year than last. Pollok are weaker than last season, I am sure some of their fans will think it is having a go at them it is not just an opinion. Talbot has been well documented as a work in progress and had an unusually high turn over of players. Beith also weaker than last season and have lost a number of key players from this time last year. Based on that if Clydebank have improved on the park I do not see it, they are starting to get an aging squad etc...this very much is there best chance of promotion, I think failing to win it this year will be devastating for them. 

 

I am not sure how strong we will be next season, I think we may have one final year in us before we start to fall away, hopefully I am wrong. I think Gartcairn will get stronger, I think St Cadocs will get stronger and I think Talbot will get stronger, all 3 of those teams have money to spend, out of the 3 of them it is only Talbot that have still to spend. 

I think we have a  better squad than last season - even if we finish sixth to be honest, but that's just my take on it.

Despite what keeps being said, we are not throwing money at anything. We are not in a position to throw money at things so all of our transfer dealings are well thought out and calculated.

Not winning the league will not be seen as a failure or devastating, it'll be seen as disappointing. We'll go again next year with a like for like budget, because we have to. We can only spend what we bring in.

Darvel are as strong as last season if you ask me. It's clear Pollok are having a time of it. Talbot have bounced back well and Beith have shown that resolve of last season despite losing a number of big players. Gartcairn and St Cadoc's seem to have money to spend, good luck to them if that's their model of progress.

[not man of the match]

1 hour ago, jimbaxters said:

This statement has always been, is currently and will always be, true.

Why? We wanted out of the Juniors, why would then want to stay in one of their competitions?

Good luck to those that do, if it works for them.