Sarah Everard

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, hk blues said:

I doubt it...it seems his colleagues had it in for him.  

Not surprised.  Bet he didn't even share his bounty of Jaffa cakes.

[hk blues]

9 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Not surprised.  Bet he didn't even share his bounty of Jaffa cakes.

2 packets as well...fat B*****d

[Mark Connolly]

10 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Not surprised.  Bet he didn't even share his bounty of Jaffa cakes.

Probably called them a biscuit, the vile c**t

[Wee Bully]

56 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

One point I poorly tried to make once on here is that the feeling of safety is not a guarantee of safety. 

Absolutely women should feel safe walking home from a night out, say. But that isn't the same as being safe - the Everard case is a prime example. A woman, walking at night, sees a police officer. Probably imagined that her safety level had, if anything, gone up. We know sadly that this was not the case. 

A woman at home might feel safe, but domestic violence and domestic abuse is (to my mind) at least as great a danger to women. Living with men, being in their homes away from prying eyes - they might feel safe but could be in danger. 

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do. There are many blokish men who have very macho lives, have "banter" about women, poor attitudes and never harm women. And we have many men who are not blokish, can be very polite and respectful 99% of the time and do the most horrendous stuff to women. 

I don't have the answer. But I fear that people in power who also don't have the answer will blunder around trying stuff to be seen to be acting in the right way.

I’ve found myself watching the advert from the police, and feeling pretty uncomfortable about my own behaviour at times.  The “blokish” point I suppose is that it sets the tone and excuses, in their minds, those who go “just a little bit further”.  If the banter is less acceptable, the next step on is clearer to everyone.

Going back to the train incident someone mentioned a few pages ago - you could see it as just banter.  It’s not though.

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

Not that relevant to the discussion above but I remember being in Dundee Union and my mate from Czech Republic spanked some bird’s arse as she went by. He seemed confused that this was considered unacceptable behaviour by the rest of us. He then told me that they have a festival in Czech Republic each year where all the men go door to door spanking the women’s arses (possibly with whips). Absolutely bizarre stuff.

[Gordon EF]

You've got to admire the "stop being so defensive you absolute b*****d" strategy.

[DiegoDiego]

There are many blokish men who have very macho lives, have "banter" about women, poor attitudes and never harm women. And we have many men who are not blokish, can be very polite and respectful 99% of the time and do the most horrendous stuff to women.

I think this is often overlooked in this debate. Ted Bundy was by all accounts a very charming, respectful man aside from all the murders and what not.

Of course, that doesn't mean it's okay to go around being an arsehole, but there are two unconnected problems here.

[SweeperDee]

To be fair, that's not what I was saying.
I'm saying that male culture contributes to women feeling scared.
And I'm also saying that male culture prevents guys like Couzens standing out like a sore thumb.
I think men are struggling to realise that this isn't just about the likes of Couzens. It's about a more general widespread fear that men breed in women in society because of the culture men have created. I don't think most men understand that at all.
If anyone needs to understand what this male culture looks like they simply need to start asking the women in their lives about it. They'll tell you. They've been telling men for decades. We've just not been listening and assuming that because we're not all sexual perverts that somehow everything is hunky dory.
Anyway, I just wanted to pop back onto to correct that first point.

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

[scottsdad]

5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I'll step back from the thread now with one final plea to all men.

^^ More comebacks than Frank Sinatra 

[Jeff Venom]

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

Either way it's still a problem with men.

[SweeperDee]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

2 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

Either way it's still a problem with men.

Which is fixable...how exactly? Because as I highlighted previously, this overwhelming violence has been an issue since time immemorial. 

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 hours ago, Left Back said:

Not surprised.  Bet he didn't even share his bounty of Jaffa cakes.

Bounty, Jaffa Cakes, it's all got very confusing.

[Jacksgranda]

5 hours ago, hk blues said:

I doubt it...it seems his colleagues had it in for him.  

Aye, there was a lot more going on there than not stumping up enough for jaffa cakes.

[sophia]

7 hours ago, scottsdad said:

Living with men, being in their homes away from prying eyes - they might feel safe but could be in danger. 

I'm not sure I agree with @oaksoft that male culture - even if we can define it - is the root cause of people like Couzens acting the way they do. 

I was taken with your juxtaposition of the mundane and the aberration, so forgive my edit.

Male culture is clearly a huge issue and just as much as it isn't the root cause of the recent catastrophic events that took away Sarah, it is a subject that is difficult indeed.

[superbigal]

2 packets as well...fat B*****d

My understanding is they were the packs you get for kids school packed lunches.
So ten bob is a bit steep for 2 jaffa cakes.

[Left Back]

21 minutes ago, superbigal said:

My understanding is they were the packs you get for kids school packed lunches.
So ten bob is a bit steep for 2 jaffa cakes.

Should have mugged a kid for his lunchtime snack then.  Might still have a job.

[Wee Bully]

8 hours ago, SweeperDee said:

What do you say about…murder in general? As a broader topic? That’s mostly male on male; is that once again down to “male” culture or is that just down to humans as a species? With no aspect of “culture” taken into account?

I’m not going to criticise your post.

Maybe just take a step back and think about it.  If it really is your position, fair enough. If it is just you playing devils advocate, fair enough again.  Either way, what does your post have to say about male violence against women?

[SweeperDee]

I’m not going to criticise your post.
Maybe just take a step back and think about it.  If it really is your position, fair enough. If it is just you playing devils advocate, fair enough again.  Either way, what does your post have to say about male violence against women?

Go back and read what I posted before; I am hurting to know what can be done because as it stands, men are damaging women in unspeakable ways, in unacceptable numbers. It’s fucking horrible, but I’m not going to accept it’s solely down to culture; that’s reductionist and it doesn’t begin to approach to solve the problem. Shouting from the rooftops “listen to the women and they will say how to fix it” has little meaning if we do everything they say and yet IT STILL HAPPENS. Then what do we blame? More “culture”?

I was just asking that particular slant because I was wanting to know what p***kish answer Oaksoft was going to come up with next, to see if he could stay consistent.

[welshbairn]

This should be normal.

 

[The Moonster]

On 14/10/2021 at 20:53, oaksoft said:

We have had posters on this forum who have demonstrated they don't even understand what consent means. They think there's a "grey area" or "blurred lines". 

Who has said this shit and where?