Tory Lies, Corruption and Hypocrisy- Add Them Here

[doulikefish]

Sunak just talking about the war on the motorist today and nothing else

We are about a month away before the maddos are telling us that drink driving is good 

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Sunak just talking about the war on the motorist today and nothing else

We are about a month away before the maddos are telling us that drink driving is good 

I take it as a positive sign in a way.  If this is the best the Tories have got then they’re fucked.

In reality I want them to start clawing back the overwhelming Labour lead, the only chance we have after the next GE is if the SNP hold the balance of power at Westminster and that’s looking highly unlikely.

[Boo Khaki]

2 hours ago, Empty It said:

Couldn't imagine anything like that getting a majority vote in Scotland but as we all know it doesn't matter what Scotlands majority vote as Engerland would vote something like this in tomorrow. 

This is exactly why the SG gaining control over certain welfare benefits was undoubtedly a positive step. 

There was already a significant difference between the two nations in the regard that we've effectively had a moratorium on "fit for work" assessments for years, and they haven't. In truth, it's as much down to the inability to actually conduct them as it is ideological or political opposition, but there is a definite, and marked variance in approach and attitude between Holyrood and Westminster when it comes to how people on "sickness" benefits are both perceived and "managed". 

Another of the multitude of subtle differences that are conveniently ignored by the "Aye, but the SNP are useless and have achieved nothing" cohorts of both Indi and Yoon camps.

[Boo Khaki]

1 hour ago, Leith Green said:

This is true, however most of the time people compare it with other European countries, its a bit "apples and pears" - people often talk about France, but they have what amounts to compulsory additional pension (and redundancy protection) contributions via taxation. 

Our country has always gone down the route of the State Pension being a subsistence amount and leaving people to fend for themselves for anything else - some free market bampots suggest this allows people "choice" but in reality it just means too many people ignored pensions over their lifetime.

Auto Enrolment (a concept of the last Labour Govt) was an opportunity to change this for the better - the Pensions Industry wanted this, Unions wanted it, but once they were elected in 2010, the coalition government kept watering it down at every stage so we now have the ridiculous situation where people are Auto Enrolled at a very low contribution %age and can STILL opt out a month later.

Just another Tory shambles, max contributions of 8% which is "fine" but as many people on low wages will opt out it wont really uplift the overall pension provision for those at the very bottom.

f**k the Tories, and f**k the Lib Dems

Again, I'm going to stress that I'm not advocating for, or suggesting that State Pension should be cut back, but a lot of people still seem to be oblivious to the fact that in so far as "being poor" and claiming Welfare goes, pensioners have, by far, had it the easiest of anyone in that demographic over the past 13 years.

Basic State Pension is still a far larger weekly amount than any common basic rate of UC/ESA/IS, and while the amounts themselves don't come close to typical salaries, the difference between State Pension and say, ESA, one of the more "generous" benefits, is enormous. It's nearly double the amount. Pensioners still qualify for other benefits that are realised in terms of reductions, reduced bills and so on. By and large, people who are of working age but claim out of work or "sickness" benefit actually become far better off once they switch over to State Pension, which seems odd considering the perceived 'norm' is to go from working age and being comfortable, to being pensionable and having less disposable income. The opposite is generally the case if you are not working. 

I've found myself working with people approaching pension age who are still keen to get off benefits and get into some sort of work, but not only is that difficult due to employers shying away from folk in their 50's and 60's, it's made unrewarding due to pathetic salaries and the associated costs of working leaving them no better off in many cases, but not only that, when it's pointed out to them what their income will look like in a few years when they come off of working age benefit and go on to State Pension, most of them look at it like it's a pending lottery win style windfall and immediately change their tune. It's an utterly bizarre state of affairs.

The pension would look a lot less attractive if working age benefits had been protected for the same length of time, and if salaries and wages had grown instead of stagnating and being subsidised in the form of Credits, but still, the idea that you can almost double your income by becoming a pensioner just seems truly ridiculous, given that it is so out of step with the common perception of what it means to reach pensionable age.

I'm conscious of the fact that this makes me sound like I have it in for the Pension and pensioners, and I do not at all. I'm just bringing it up to emphasise just how fucking sleekit Tories are being when they crusade against Welfare but simultaneously beat their chests about protecting the State Pension. It, like everything else they do, it's entirely cynical.

[BFTD]

44 minutes ago, doulikefish said:

Sunak just talking about the war on the motorist today and nothing else

We are about a month away before the maddos are telling us that drink driving is good 

If you asked motorists, I'd guess nine out of ten would say that the most unfair thing about driving is that more than half of the price paid for petrol is tax. No doubt the Tories will get right on that and cut back on siphoning money off to their friends to pay for it to be reduced.

[BFTD]

As far as pensioners go, it really does come down to the demographic most likely to vote being pandered to by politicians who could not give a single solitary shiny shit about what happens when they're out of office, just so long as they obtain enough votes to continue on for another five years and retire to some tax haven when the shit goes down. There's a bunch of nasty self-centred b*****ds in the 65+ demographic, but they'll have been the same when they were young too, and it'll primarily be fearful, vulnerable, and confused folk who'll feel that they're voting to suffer as little as possible before slipping into terrifying eternity.

Objectively, you also can't blame the rapacious evil b*****ds running the country for doing what they need to do to continue in the jobs that set them up with contacts and favours for the rest of their lives. You can't expect the scorpion to resist its own character. The real problem, as ever, is apathy among the young, and it's in nobody else's interest to fix that. It just seems to take people a long time to realise that they've as much democratic power in the world as the parents who they're used to having absolute power over them, and it's easier to give up consider it's what the prior generations did.

I don't see a cohesive generation changing that until they're digging around in rubble for their next meal, by which point they'd be unlikely to have a democratic voice anyway. Bit of a shiter.

[Granny Danger]

If we could persuade young/er people to get off their arses and vote then political parties would need to listen to them and their concerns and act accordingly.

Until then the age groups who do turn out to vote will be the ones who are pandered to.

[Salt n Vinegar]

3 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

If we could persuade young/er people to get off their arses and vote then political parties would need to listen to them and their concerns and act accordingly.

Until then the age groups who do turn out to vote will be the ones who are pandered to.

True enough.  I haven't missed voting in any election, local or national, or in any referendum since I became eligible to vote when I was a student.  I think folk like me should get an award for services to democracy.

My brother is as mad as a box of frogs.  He is always banging on about politics and politicians but can't seem to remember the last time he voted.  One of his favourite expressions is "You see, in my opinion...." which is kind of odd as he seems remarkably reluctant to express that opinion at the ballot box.

Don't vote? Shut yer pus then!

[coprolite]

8 hours ago, Boo Khaki said:

That's not the idea at all.

The point is that the State pension has been afforded a degree of protection that neither wages, nor any other benefit has for years. Pensioners are also eligible for all sorts of other help on top of just the State Pension, so if, like the Tories are, you are going to start talking, again, about the need to cut back on Welfare State, then the obvious place to look is at the area that has been least badly hit by years of austerity and cuts, i.e. the State Pension.

Of course the issue is that the poorest are shafted time and time again, and you don't elevate those by taking something away from people who are marginally less poor, but I wasn't meaning to make an overarching point about how to achieve social justice and equity. It was simply a point about the duplicity of Tories insisting that the Welfare State is a burden while totally ignoring what the largest part of that burden is. I should perhaps have made that clear.

I agree that by comparison with our peers our pension is still shameful, and I am not advocating that it's either reduced or in some way ameliorated in favour of means tested alternatives. I was intending to make the point that the Tories appear to be yet again ready to begin another ideological crusade against the 'undeserving' poor claiming sickness benefits, while totally ignoring the fact that employers get away with paying disgraceful wages because they are subsidised by UC, and that by far and away the greatest single part of their "too large" Welfare burden is claimed by their core voters, the over 65's.

They'll lob a load of pensioner-friendly pledges into their next GE manifesto, proclaim that they are going to hammer "scroungers", the over-65's will lap it up and dutifully vote Tory, then the State Pension eligibility age will be pushed upwards yet again.

Nobody claiming any sort of Welfare benefits from these utter shithouses' policies, but by and large pensioners will not include themselves in the group of people they perceive to be "Welfare claimants", so promising to "hammer welfare" appears to still be a Tory go-to in order to keep their voter base happy. 

The triple lock is not that great for current pensioners.

It's an incremental increase on an already low sum. A proper upwards shift on a one off basis without triple lock protection, say just CPIed, would be more of a bung to a Tory demographic. 

If it stays in place, the people who benefit most will be those who are joining the labour force now. Big if there. 

[BFTD]

I've only missed two votes since I became eligible in the late Nineties, one of which was in a London borough I'd just moved from. It only had the standard Con/Lab/Lib options because the Conservative candidate had about 80% of the popular vote and I couldn't have cared less about their impoverished wee Tory hellhole. I see they've since been merged into another area that pulled them into having Labour MPs for the past decade or more, which hahahahahahaha lolzers, they'll have been spitting feathers.

I don't think anyone should be feeling good about walking down to the local village hall and putting an X in a box every few years - it's possibly the least onerous duty society has for us.  It's also nice to be part of everyone coming together to make decisions (which powerless group to victimise, usually). Occasionally I'll have to employ magical thinking to drag myself along after a long day at work, or being ill, to vote for someone who's guaranteed to lose - what if there are a thousand other people currently sitting on their arse trying to muster up the energy to go out too? Maybe we'll collectively do it if one of us makes the effort.

Utter bollocks, of course, but such a minimal effort really ought to be compulsory, even if it's just to draw a cock on the ballot. Especially since postal voting became widespread - God knows how people who can't even be bothered with that cope with daily tasks such as wiping their arse.

[Granny Danger]

I remember voting for the first time for Augustus Caesar.  It was easy back then, you just voted for whoever offered you the biggest bribe!  

 

 

 

 

 

Come to think of it it’s not changed that much.  

[BFTD]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

I remember voting for the first time for Augustus Caesar.  It was easy back then, you just voted for whoever offered you the biggest bribe!  

Come to think of it it’s not changed that much.  

I notice you're not willing to admit to voting for Julius - smart move considering your Brexit vote keeps coming up.

Octavian was a badass, especially considering he was a sickly lad, but Mark Antony would've definitely been the #clubdece choice. He invented doing lines and banging nines.

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, BTFD said:

I notice you're not willing to admit to voting for Julius - smart move considering your Brexit vote keeps coming up.

Octavian was a badass, especially considering he was a sickly lad, but Mark Antony would've definitely been the #clubdece choice. He invented doing lines and banging nines.

The clubdece patter was fucking rank even when it wasn’t referenced to Ancient Rome.

 

[BFTD]

11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The clubdece patter was fucking rank even when it wasn’t referenced to Ancient Rome.

I believe they won the election, and there hasn't been another, so prepare to justify your opinion in the Well Jel courts.

[btb]

46 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

I remember voting for the first time for Augustus Caesar.  It was easy back then, you just voted for whoever offered you the biggest bribe!  

Come to think of it it’s not changed that much.  

The puzzle is why so many people buy the propaganda pushed by the MSM.

How many people voted Tory during the last decade even though it made them worse off financially with their lives blighted by austerity. Did they really believe it was all down to the imigants?

 

[BFTD]

10 minutes ago, btb said:

The puzzle is why so many people buy the propaganda pushed by the MSM.

How many people voted Tory during the last decade even though it made them worse off financially with their lives blighted by austerity. Did they really believe it was all down to the imigants?

 

"I might be worse off, but at least <x> will suffer even more!"

The older I get, the more it feels like this is a primary motivator for a lot of people.

[Granny Danger]

45 minutes ago, btb said:

The puzzle is why so many people buy the propaganda pushed by the MSM.

How many people voted Tory during the last decade even though it made them worse off financially with their lives blighted by austerity. Did they really believe it was all down to the imigants?

 

Yeah we’re worse off but it would have been ever badder under Labour?

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Yeah we’re worse off but it would have been ever badder under Labour?

Stop pretending that, under Labour, everyone wasn't eating corpses in the streets and paying 105% tax! It happened!

At least the Tories haven't outlawed food banks and still let me sleep in the park, so long as I stay off the benches.

[DrewDon]

Campaigning for a worker to lose his livelihood now. Just typical of the out-of-touch political class in this country. 

[ClydeTon]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66972357

Huge blow to the Tories. (Rightly, tbf) Called "Out of Touch" by a now ex-Member who is in charge of Iceland (the shops), a place which you'd never, ever, see a Tory shopping in.

Oh, the irony.