VAR in Scottish Football

[kingjoey]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I wasn’t even trying to really frame it as the big clubs feel persecuted in decision making hence they want it. 

My point is more that businesses (st Johnstone as much as Celtic) don’t like outcomes being determined by random factors such as human error in refereeing. It can come with rewards obviously but ultimately anything variable like that they’d prefer to minimise. The super league example was just an extreme version of that, where elite clubs can’t accept the fact that their prize money and income is determined by unfair factors such as, you know, winning and losing football games. 

Two things here.

1) I really wish I could write stuff as erudite as your recent VAR posts. 

2) I really hope @bennett does not reply to this one.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

VAR does favour the "elite" clubs as inherently they have more to lose. 

So f**k them. 

[Valentino Bolognese]

4 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I wasn’t even trying to really frame it as the big clubs feel persecuted in decision making hence they want it. 

My point is more that businesses (st Johnstone as much as Celtic) don’t like outcomes being determined by random factors such as human error in refereeing. It can come with rewards obviously but ultimately anything variable like that they’d prefer to minimise. The super league example was just an extreme version of that, where elite clubs can’t accept the fact that their prize money and income is determined by unfair factors such as, you know, winning and losing football games. 

Of course, a predictable revenue line is vital as is mitigation of risk, and you could say that VAR represents risk management for bigger teams. The downside of an adverse decision or two in pure cash terms is likely more material to them than to a smaller club. 

My point was that VAR may also alter the competitive environment, allowing smaller players a more equal opportunity for success, as in many cases the larger players likely benefit (possibly marginally, maybe not). 

Any business would take both these factors (and more of course) into account when balancing up VAR as an investment decision. Much like the Super League was of course about many things that would benefit certain business, but not the game as a whole. 

[kingjoey]

VAR:

Very

Average

Results

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

VAR:

Very

Average

Results

I found that erudite. 

[kingjoey]

8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I found that erudite. 

Shucks.

[accies1874]

If the old firm want VAR so much why don’t they pay for it.
The thing that annoys me most about this is that no one at all is listening to supporters, we don’t want it and the clubs don’t seem to care.

Quite a lot will want it. I'm not sure if the majority do or don't, but considering football fans' stupid paranoia and OF fans' constant "only in tinpot Scottish football [emoji1787][emoji35]" attitude a lot more will want it than it seems on this thread.

[Mr. Brightside]

Peak cinch to be a top 10 league in Europe and not have VAR. Box office. Long may it continue.

[LIVIFOREVER]

29 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

Quite a lot will want it. I'm not sure if the majority do or don't, but considering football fans' stupid paranoia and OF fans' constant "only in tinpot Scottish football " attitude a lot more will want it than it seems on this thread.

The idea of VAR is good, it's just the application of how it would be used i have no confidence in.

Would it be a clusterfuck, i'd put money on it, would it eventually find its way to make the game better once all the clusterfuck ways they've used it is ironed out, perhaps. Just how long would that take though.

 

I guess it's inevitable we'll get it, though by now you'd have thought we'd get something as simple as goal line tech to help us with those close decisions on whether the ball was over the line, but we're still reliant on blind linos who can't see fouls 5ft in front of them. So it could be another decade away. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by LIVIFOREVER

[santheman]

I think VAR will inevitably come to us at some point as UEFA (driven by the Elite clubs) will make it a requirement to enter the European competitions.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by santheman

[Zoomer Brown]

will it be tim VAR or *** VAR?

[craigkillie]

I think VAR will inevitably come to us at some point as UEFA (driven by the Elite clubs) will make it a requirement to enter the European competitions.
 
 
 
 

That seems very unlikely to me. Why would they care whether domestic competitions use VAR or not? They can and will introduce it even in the qualifiers for their own tournaments soon I would guess, but that doesn't mean they're going to require part-time and amateur top flights across Europe to spend that sort of money.

[santheman]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

That seems very unlikely to me. Why would they care whether domestic competitions use VAR or not? They can and will introduce it even in the qualifiers for their own tournaments soon I would guess, but that doesn't mean they're going to require part-time and amateur top flights across Europe to spend that sort of money.

I don't mean every club would need to install it but if UEFA did introduce it for the European competitions the teams from our League who normally qualify would have to comply so you have the situation where some teams would have it and others don't.

Wouldn't be a major problem I suppose but something to consider, especially all the conspiracy theorists.

Not really a fan of it in its present form.

 

[craigkillie]

Rangers and Celtic have already both used it in European competition, so it does exist at both their grounds as well as at Hampden.

[santheman]

22 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Rangers and Celtic have already both used it in European competition, so it does exist at both their grounds as well as at Hampden.

So I take it they either don't want to use it in domestic home games or the SFA have vetoed it on the grounds that it's every club or none at all which I would tend to agree with.

Would be interesting if Celtic and Rangers were neck and neck going into the last game of the season and the one who was at home won the game on a VAR decision while the other lost on a dubious offside goal at a ground with no VAR.

[DA Baracus]

15 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

I'm not pro-VAR, but don't think that this particular argument that it favours elite teams hangs together. Taken at face value, a more even playing field would (in Scotland at least) theoretically redress the perceived imbalance towards bigger clubs. Let's be charitable and say that's just the well-researched larger crowd effect, which VAR should eliminate. I guess my argument is that if the prosecution's case was based purely on business, the larger clubs would prefer to retain the status quo as it favours them with their larger, ahem, 'influence'. 

Saying all that I'd be quite happy for VAR to be retrospectively used for all St Johnstone games this year, the results corrected, and then the system immediately scrapped and never spoken of again.

It'll do nothing of the sort for the majority of things can go against the teams facing the larger support. It's the wee things, like not getting a corner or free kick, or even a throw in in their favour, and of course having these things awarded against them, as well as players escaping a card too often.

These wee things add up. Sevco and Celtic morons will point to some isolated larger incidents that they didn't get once (for example a penalty at Tanndice on Sunday for Sevco not being given), but ask, say, a Ross County or Livingston fan about things they felt went against their team from officials and things the other team were awarded when they shouldn't have the last time they were at Ibrox or Parkhead, and I'm sure you'd hear plenty of examples. 

[accies1874]

Another weekend with the Premier League thread awash with comments thanking VAR for getting the big decisions right. "Thank goodness for VAR!" they're all saying.

[blackislekillie]

VAR here might be worth it for the weekly heads gone comedy on the forums. More entertaining than watching Killie at least.

[kingjoey]

On 22/02/2022 at 21:51, santheman said:

So I take it they either don't want to use it in domestic home games or the SFA have vetoed it on the grounds that it's every club or none at all which I would tend to agree with.

Would be interesting if Celtic and Rangers were neck and neck going into the last game of the season and the one who was at home won the game on a VAR decision while the other lost on a dubious offside goal at a ground with no VAR.

I’m not sure if that’s a serious post or if you’re on the wind up?

[DA Baracus]

On 22/02/2022 at 21:51, santheman said:

So I take it they either don't want to use it in domestic home games or the SFA have vetoed it on the grounds that it's every club or none at all which I would tend to agree with.

Would be interesting if Celtic and Rangers were neck and neck going into the last game of the season and the one who was at home won the game on a VAR decision while the other lost on a dubious offside goal at a ground with no VAR.

Why would the SFA have any say in an SPFL competition (other than club registration rules)?