welshbairn Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Russian bloggers claiming Ukrainians have gained a major foothold on the left bank of the Dnieper by the Antonovsky bridge, Ukrainian bloggers denying it. Seems to be based on this video which looks a bit CGI'ed to me. https://twitter.com/mdfzeh/status/1673057548369371140?s=20 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 19 hours ago, highlandmac said: The days of "capture the capital,win the war" are long gone It wasn't the case in 1812,it wouldn't have been the case in 1941 if the Germans had managed it&it wouldn't be the case nowadays. Aye, I suppose you could say 211 years is "long gone". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 18 hours ago, MazzyStar said: Fucking polar bears. Probably a dangerous sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musketeer Gripweed Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 What happens now to all the African & Middle East Wagner concerns now? Surely the oligarchs will still be wanting all that oil money? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, Musketeer Gripweed said: What happens now to all the African & Middle East Wagner concerns now? Surely the oligarchs will still be wanting all that oil money? Prigozhin couldn't have been running the whole thing on his own, there's presumably high level consiglieri with the right Kremlin contacts who could take over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Where's the Chechens? They still on the march to confront the Wag's? Are Kadyrov and Pigozhin going to have a charity celebrity death match in Minsk? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Prigozhin couldn't have been running the whole thing on his own, there's presumably high level consiglieri with the right Kremlin contacts who could take over. Wagner were/are strongly aligned with the GRU - military intelligence. Utkin, the neo-Nazi who supposedly co-founded the group, was a member of GRU special forces who fought in Chechnya. At least one of the units who allegedly stood down and didn't stop the Wagner thunder run was a GRU special operations unit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Where's the Chechens? They still on the march to confront the Wag's? Are Kadyrov and Pigozhin going to have a charity celebrity death match in Minsk? They said they were going to intercept the Wagner column but never showed up and posted some footage of them patrolling. This was geolocated to somewhere in Moscow Oblast and timed to show that it was filmed after Prigozhin had called off the mutiny. There has been an unconfirmed film of some Kadyrov troops executing an alleged Wagner supporter by holding him down and cutting his throat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Surely Prigozhin and Putin still have a hell of a lot of bad blood between them, now? They both publically (internationally, even) slated each other, with Putin refering to Prigozhin as a Traitor and a terrorist. And, of course, Russian Special Forces - supposed to be the elite and most loyal part of any army - have been reported to have allowed Wagner to pass through freely. Had it escalated, there's a solid chance that many Russian units would have just put their guns down, surely? Either way, it's highly unlikely that it's over yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Wagner were/are strongly aligned with the GRU - military intelligence. Utkin, the neo-Nazi who supposedly co-founded the group, was a member of GRU special forces who fought in Chechnya. At least one of the units who allegedly stood down and didn't stop the Wagner thunder run was a GRU special operations unit. One of the people he was seen chatting with at Rostov army HQ was Vladimir Alekseyev, GRU general in charge of overseeing Wagner. Edited June 26, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Is Belarus the new Siberia? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Cawdor Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said: Is Belarus the new Siberia? It's the new South Down. "All political lives, unless they are cut off at a happy juncture, end in failure, because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs." Enoch (rivers of blood) Powell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 4 hours ago, ICTChris said: You also have to say, all the information coming from this is coming from very unreliable sources. What you''re saying is tthat I shouldn't believe everything I read on this thread? WELL IT'S A BIT FUCKING LATE NOW!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 20 minutes ago, SlipperyP said: What you''re saying is tthat I shouldn't believe everything I read on this thread? WELL IT'S A BIT FUCKING LATE NOW!!!!!!! No, there are lots of reliable sources on the war in Ukraine, some more so than others. Pretty much all the info about the supposed deal between the Russian government and Wagner has come from Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, who routinely lies about everything. You can actually see this play out in real time as Peskov had said that the criminal case against Prigozhin and Wagner would be closed at the weekend but it's been confirmed today that it hasn't been closed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Prigozhin was facing a deadline of July 1 to basically cede control of his forces to the MoD. His early comments were focused upon demanding a change of leadership at the MoD, while not specifically indicting/implicating Putin. His stated goal of the drive north was to change leadership at the MoD, but also then later included swipes at Putin. Thats when Putin declared Prigozhin a traitor and the FSB filed charges…charges which, despite the “agreement”, don’t seem to have been dropped. Wagner pays/paid twice what the Russian MoD contracts pay/paid. Wagner pays/paid a 5 million rubles, in cash, death benefit while the MoD advertises a theoretical 7.4 million ruble death benefit, but many Oblasts pay as little 1 million rubles. Wagner pays with a bag of cash and advises on avoiding taxes and scrutiny; the MoD isn’t a forthcoming and often games the system with endless MIA reports and no payment without a body. Wagner has better leadership, equipment and had convict troops to use as cannon fodder; the Russian MoD has poor leadership, varying equipment levels and might now have some convict units to use in that manner. Wagner overseas has been a prime source of gold and hard currency income for Russia, and the new traitor status of Prigozhin is seemingly causing his Arab friends to pivot toward American support rather than other Russian support, hindering Wagners/Russias efforts in Africa going forward. Prigozhin apparently had some previous connection/dealings with Lukashenko, but it’s not clear if Lukashenko had leverage or just a relationship. It will be instructive to see if this delays the Russia/Belarus Union. Meanwhile, the MoD will likely be hesitant to employ Wagner troops, as they are seen to be unreliable. Wagner troops may well show up outside Russia in a new mercenary organization. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) There was an odd thing back in 2020 when a load of supposedly Wagner boys were arrested in a spa hotel near Minsk airport, just before the election that Lukashenko was forced to rig. Bellingcat came up with a fabulous theory for why they were there. Inside Wagnergate: Ukraine’s Brazen Sting Operation to Snare Russian Mercenaries Edited June 26, 2023 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: There was an odd thing back in 2020 when a load of supposedly Wagner boys were arrested in a spa hotel near Minsk airport, just before the election that Lukashenko was forced to rig. Bellingcat came up with a fabulous theory for why they were there. Inside Wagnergate: Ukraine’s Brazen Sting Operation to Snare Russian Mercenaries A long, but engrossing, read. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DA Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 5 hours ago, SlipperyP said: What you''re saying is tthat I shouldn't believe everything I read on this thread? WELL IT'S A BIT FUCKING LATE NOW!!!!!!! ^^^ Joined Wagner at the weekend 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Prigozhin comments https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/06/26/we-gave-a-master-class The question is - the law he was protesting against is still due to go into force on July 1st. Has anything changed? Will Wagner cease to exist then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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