New Premiership European play-off spot

[Buckets]

Scotland now has 5 European spots and this will be the case for as long as Scotland is ranked 15th or above in the coefficient ranking, which will be for at least a few years. This means only 1 team in the top 6 won't qualify for Europe.

A playoff for a place in Europe is used in other leagues like Belgium, Czech Republic or the Netherlands. The Austrian league has a similar format to ours with a 12 team league splitting in half. The top 4 teams go into Europe but 5th has to win a game against the winner of a playoff between 7th and 8th to qualify for Europe.

If the Premiership introduced something similar it would mean that the top clubs in the bottom 6 would have something to fight for after the split instead of the usual dead rubbers. The battle for top 6 is very tight this year between 7 teams but only 3 will qualify. 2 of these 3 will then qualify for Europe. If it wasn't for the split these bottom 6 teams would still be in contention for Europe anyway after week 33, as the league is so close.

In Scotland we could have the top 4 going to Europe but have 5th, 6th and 7th play-off. 7th plays away to 6th and the winner plays away to 5th. It would be a good way to end the season with good crowds. Maybe wouldn't be exciting for Aberdeen, Hearts or Hibs who usually expect to be in Europe but would be an exciting prospect for other clubs. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Buckets

[ATLIS]

The clubs that finish highest over the course of the season should qualify as they've earned it. Scotland should be putting its strongest teams forward in Europe to maximise the coefficient return we get. Any argument otherwise is short sighted, even for the sake of 'entertainment' it's unnecessary 

[Dundee Hibernian]

28 minutes ago, Buckets said:

Scotland now has 5 European spots and this will be the case for as long as Scotland is ranked 15th or above in the coefficient ranking, which will be for at least a few years. This means only 1 team in the top 6 won't qualify for Europe.

Didn't look too much at the rest of your post, but Hibs could win the cup and finish outside the top five.

3 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

The clubs that finish highest over the course of the season should qualify as they've earned it. Scotland should be putting its strongest teams forward in Europe to maximise the coefficient return we get. Any argument otherwise is short sighted, even for the sake of 'entertainment' it's unnecessary 

Didn't read this, not as I'm impolite, but didn't want to be first to reply. Jumping in to point out a folly.

[craigkillie]

Practically speaking, the only way this could work would be to hold the play-offs after the cup final, since we wouldn't know who would be playing in Europe until that point. Given that the cup final is traditionally on the last weekend of the season, and one of the potential play-off contenders would regularly be in the cup final, that would most likely mean these play-offs going on at least a week after the cup final and probably taking us into June (and past the cut-off date that UEFA sets for declaring who is involved).

Therefore the only way it could work would be by moving the cup final away from its traditional showpiece spot at the end of the season, and for that very reason it's a big no for me.

[Buckets]

48 minutes ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Didn't look too much at the rest of your post, but Hibs could win the cup and finish outside the top five.

Didn't read this, not as I'm impolite, but didn't want to be first to reply. Jumping in to point out a folly.

9 times out of 10 the Cup winner would be from the top 4. But yes if its a team from 5th-7th you could work round it by putting in the 4th team instead of the cup winner. And if its a team below 7th you could make the play-offs be for 4th-6th or 4th-7th. Just the same as what's done in other countries really. 

[ahemps]

It's not a bad idea in general but the cup final thing doesn't help. Maybe in an expanded league of say 16 teams their could be some form of split that encompasses a playoff for 5th while increasing the games for teams as a 30 game season would be too short after being used to 38 games.  

Rewarding the higher placed league team with home advantage in a play off is a good idea as it still rewards the effort over a season.

[lubo_blaha]

I’m not sure this would really add anything to the league. We already have the Scottish Cup final and Premiership playoff to finish the season and as others have said, the European place is dependent on the cup final outcome.

As an example, say Hibs face Celtic in this season’s cup final with Livi in 5th, Ross County 6th and Aberdeen 7th. You’d have teams waiting around to see what the result of the final is and if Hibs win, there wouldn’t be a playoff at all. You’re pushing games into June as well which isn’t ideal.

I think the split acts as a decent European playoff as it is to be honest.

[ahemps]

52 minutes ago, lubo_blaha said:

I think the split acts as a decent European playoff as it is to be honest.

This is a fair point and does act as a target for most of the middle placed teams all season and it is known right from the start that you need to be top 6 after 33 games which in most years gives you a chance at Europe.

For discussion though this season the split could be very harsh, depending on results over the next few weeks there could be very little between 10th and 4th at the time of the split. I suppose that is known right from the start and the race is on to be top 6 after 33 games.

However the split can sometimes be unfair on fixtures to everyone except the OF as only they are guaranteed fair fixtures after the split. I'm sure a few seasons ago a few teams unexpectedly made top 6 and Rangers had played the vast majority of them already at home meaning they should have played 4 or 5 of their last 6 away to make it even against individual opposition but that would make it uneven for home/away fixtures for them. Of course this would not be allowed and a team had to make a 3rd trip to Ibrox so they bore the brunt of the unfair split and not the OF. That would be bad scenario for a team chasing Europe where a direct playoff may be fairer. Looking back a few years about 50% of seasons will see 1 team play 20 home games and 1 team play 18. This will never happen for the OF though, they will always get 19.

PS I may be wrong on the above about a team making 3 trips to Ibrox but I'm pretty sure this has happened.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Aren't the post split fixtures effectively European and relegation play offs?

[Zamora Fan]

Aren't the post split fixtures effectively European and relegation play offs?

If you had Europe or relegation playoffs that involved multiple top flight teams.. you would end up with a common scenario where you had two teams playing each other on the last day in a straight shootout for 5th, then having to go into a playoff against each other after that for the European spot even after one team won the higher league spot. Not for me, introducing more playoffs would take away from the drama of the last day of the season (plus the other end of season set-pieces in the relegation playoff/cup final etc. It’s definitely possible to oversaturate fans with drama and inadvertently ruin the big moments we already have.)

[tarapoa]

It's a good idea - would turn the top end of the bottom six (dead rubber territory normally) into something more than a fight for 'the thimble' if there was tangible reward of a play-off.

Works well in the Netherlands.

Any chance of introducing it right now given our possible lack of runway to make the top six ?!

Edited March 23, 2022 by tarapoa

[craigkillie]

However the split can sometimes be unfair on fixtures to everyone except the OF as only they are guaranteed fair fixtures after the split. I'm sure a few seasons ago a few teams unexpectedly made top 6 and Rangers had played the vast majority of them already at home meaning they should have played 4 or 5 of their last 6 away to make it even against individual opposition but that would make it uneven for home/away fixtures for them. Of course this would not be allowed and a team had to make a 3rd trip to Ibrox so they bore the brunt of the unfair split and not the OF.

This is a misunderstanding of the principles applied when scheduling post-split fixtures. The number one priority is giving as many teams as possible 19 home games and 19 away games, even if that is at the expense of balance within a particular fixture.

If a team is "supposed" to play away to their opponents in every game, that would only leave them with 16 or 17 home games, so the only solution is to switch a fixture. That would happen regardless of the teams involved.

[tarapoa]

6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This is a misunderstanding of the principles applied when scheduling post-split fixtures. The number one priority is giving as many teams as possible 19 home games and 19 away games, even if that is at the expense of balance within a particular fixture.

If a team is "supposed" to play away to their opponents in every game, that would only leave them with 16 or 17 home games, so the only solution is to switch a fixture. That would happen regardless of the teams involved.

 

However, there is an unwritten rule within that logic and we all know what it is.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Give it to TB5 IMO