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Bear with me on this, it could turn into a bit of a ramble!

I've heard from various places now (Open Goal being the one that springs to mind) that Marvin is kidding himself if he thinks League 1 players won't make mistakes. McClelland was criticised for turning his back on a shot but watching Match of The Day at the weekend I noticed various central defenders turn their backs rather than take a hit on the face (Harry McGuire in particular springs to mind, not the best example of a world class central defender but I'm sure he'd do ok at our level!).

I used to play a bit of curling, not to the level Bet365 would want to cover it 😃. Decent players would quite often ask you to draw a shot on the button and I would have to point out that they may be able to play that shot but the chances are I would miss and leave them sitting 6 and it may be better to go with the worst case scenario and just let me clatter into the stones.

I actually think our current squad is probably better than League 1 standard but they are being asked to play Champions League football where inevitable mistakes are costing us dearly. I don't think Marvin will (or can) change his philosophy so it's probably best for both Marvin and the club to part ways, Marvin to go back to coaching at a higher level and us to bring in a manager who understands the limitations of players at this level.

Told you it may go on a bit!

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32 minutes ago, Biblemaster said:

I actually think our current squad is probably better than League 1 standard but they are being asked to play Champions League football where inevitable mistakes are costing us dearly. 

Can't agree with this part. The players are clearly being asked to play a system they're incapable of carrying out, I agree. But we're not talking about mistakes because they're exhausted from a high energy press all game or because they're being asked to control the ball with pinpoint precision. They're making mistakes that you'd see at Sunday league level. Fannying about with the ball and giving away a corner instead of putting it out for a throw-in, playing suicidal balls to the opposition when under absolutely no pressure, failing to stay even remotely close to your marker at set pieces, having no idea where your marker even is, giving away needless fouls that put the team under pressure - I don't think any of those are what's expected to make it to Champions League level, I think it's the absolute basics of football. For as much as Bartley has got wrong in his spell he really has been let down by some idiotic mistakes from the players at times. I honestly don't think these mistakes are because of the system. That's why I don't see a quick fix even if Bartley is canned today. We're still going to have players unable to do the very basics regardless of who's in charge. 

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Was at your game as a neutral, although wanted you to win obviously. You seemed to get back into it especially with Ambrose's disallowed goal, got a few more chances and the 2nd goal killed you. Thought your full backs were absolutely shocking, couldn't stop a ball into the box to save themselves. There definitely is some quality in that squad especially on the wings but need to find the right man to utilise it.

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1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

Fannying about with the ball and giving away a corner instead of putting it out for a throw-in, playing suicidal balls to the opposition when under absolutely no pressure.

While you are correct that most of the other mistakes you mention are just down to pure lack of ability, these ones I feel are because that is how the manager is asking them to play.

I remember Kevin Holt telling me when he first came into the team, his instruction from Gus McPherson was to basically hoof the ball as far as he could every time he got the ball.

This actually covers two things for me:

1. Kevin was doing this because that is what he was told to do, not because it was what he wanted to do.

2. The reason he was told to do this was that the old grass pitch was so poor, Gus didn't want him taking any chances. Anyone wanting to go back to grass pitches, be careful what you wish for!

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1 hour ago, SouthStander1876 said:

Was at your game as a neutral, although wanted you to win obviously. You seemed to get back into it especially with Ambrose's disallowed goal, got a few more chances and the 2nd goal killed you. Thought your full backs were absolutely shocking, couldn't stop a ball into the box to save themselves. There definitely is some quality in that squad especially on the wings but need to find the right man to utilise it.

I think Bartley must have been the only one who couldn't see the problem, it was so obvious. 

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20 minutes ago, Biblemaster said:

Great point there, one I've often though at a game but don't think I've ever put it down in black and white!

 

9 minutes ago, bod said:

I think Bartley must have been the only one who couldn't see the problem, it was so obvious. 

Was every attack down the wing, a quick 1-2 and they were past the defender and running into the box, The boy at RB was specifically poor.

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Marvin video has sadly appeared .

He really talks a good game players being shown what to do told what to do but are not doing it .

To me that is poor management take as a example Duncan Ferguson at Inverness he tells you something it gets done.

Had to laugh Hamilton  turned the lights off half way through even the camera man gave up everyone it seems except our board who somehow think he is going to turn this around 

 

 

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I was mulling over the possibilities of who takes over in the interim from Marvin if he is gone before a replacement is in place. Assuming (hoping) that Grant Murray is also shown the door are any of the current coaching squad or experienced 1st teamers remotely capable of standing in. Todd, Reilly and McKay, I think, being the most experienced are the obvious candidates imo, but I'm not sure they would want to, or could handle stepping  in short term. McKay seems a confident type so maybe he would jump at it. Perhaps there's someone else behind the scenes capable. Any ideas? 

 

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2 hours ago, SouthStander1876 said:

Was at your game as a neutral, although wanted you to win obviously. You seemed to get back into it especially with Ambrose's disallowed goal, got a few more chances and the 2nd goal killed you. Thought your full backs were absolutely shocking, couldn't stop a ball into the box to save themselves. There definitely is some quality in that squad especially on the wings but need to find the right man to utilise it.

Logan was the RB by the looks of it and he is absolutely rank. Was on loan with us last season and looked fine. Sign him permanently and he's been pretty rotten. McIntyre the LB is the young lad on loan from Hibs. I've been unlucky that his two best games I've been unable to attend, though I'm not convinced it isn't a big joke at my expense because he's also looked rotten every time I've seen him. 

 

1 hour ago, Biblemaster said:

While you are correct that most of the other mistakes you mention are just down to pure lack of ability, these ones I feel are because that is how the manager is asking them to play.

I can't agree again I'm afraid. Regardless of the instructions given to you, you can't not do the basics of giving away a throw rather than a corner and not passing to the opposition under no pressure. Bartley has a lot to answer for but I don't think he can be faulted for that. Especially when the culprit both times was Ambrose! 

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Don't want to turn this into a slanging match as we both obviously want the same thing, but every week on Match of The Day there's at least a couple of goals scored because of slack passes out of defence. These are players of a much higher ability than Ambrose, if the manager is going to ask him to pass the ball out from the back it has to be expected that the odd one will go astray.

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I can’t believe that MB is still in post - what more evidence to the BOD need to see that the playing side is an utter unmitigated shambles. 
 

I also find it astonishing that some people think that Billy Dodds would be a disastrous replacement. Really? What calibre of replacement do we realistically expect to get? An experienced Manager with a great knowledge of Scottish football and loads of contacts - sounds great compared to what we are having to put up with at present.

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53 minutes ago, Rjc-1988 said:

I can’t believe that MB is still in post - what more evidence to the BOD need to see that the playing side is an utter unmitigated shambles. 
 

I also find it astonishing that some people think that Billy Dodds would be a disastrous replacement. Really? What calibre of replacement do we realistically expect to get? An experienced Manager with a great knowledge of Scottish football and loads of contacts - sounds great compared to what we are having to put up with at present.

I think Billy Dodds would be a good appointment. I'm not sure if he would come to us though. 

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I agree totally - it is not so much if we want him …………would he want Queens? 
 

To me at least with someone like Billy Dodds you know what you are getting - a seasoned campaigner, no more bullshit, more sensible playing style. Obviously no guarantee of success until squad can be re-vamped but a safe pair of hands to hopefully solidify our lofty L1 status.

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Not sure what Billy Dodds has done to convince folk he'd be a good appointment tbh. Having a look at his managerial career he has a 43% win rate. Bartley currently sitting on 46% (which will absolutely continue to fall though and he's had less games). But Allan Johnstone has a 44% win rate. I reckon Dodds was in charge of a better side than anything we've had at Palmerston recently as well. Really don't think he'd be able to turn us around. But then I don't know who could realistically turn this shitshow around. 

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1 hour ago, Rjc-1988 said:

I can’t believe that MB is still in post - what more evidence to the BOD need to see that the playing side is an utter unmitigated shambles. 
 

Yes, its starting to get silly now. Marv, unfortunately, clearly has no idea how to fix things. He signed the players so, ultimately, has to take the responsibility for the failure of his team. A new guy needs to come in quickly so he has time to assess the squad ahead of the january window.  If nothing happens, the frustration of the fans will, quite rightly, turn towards the BoD for their lack of action to address a worsening situation 

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This is genuinely the worst football I have watched this season since I began supporting Queen's in the late eighties and into the early nineties when we were regularly being beaten 7-0 by Alloa, Stirling Albion and several other heavy defeats. I just don't understand what the hell is going on anymore at the club. Just complete and utter silence is so, so demoralising. Maybe there are things going on behind the scenes to plan for the clubs future but if we are not told about it then you naturally assume that there is nothing. I don't mind watching defeats, as others have said, you don't support Queens and expect to win every week but the nature of those defeats have been the worst thing.

I just see no effort or love for the club from the players with the exception of a few players such as Gavin Reilly. That is the hardest thing to stomach. I have heard stories from a Physio I know who works in English football and he is clear that a lot of the players he treats can often not have injuries that should keep them out of games...they just don't want to play. Is this what is happening here with the amount of injuries we carry constantly. I know everyone was against Wullie Gibson's post on Facebook about his record v MB's but personally I can understand his frustration if the reason for his sacking is taken at face value i.e. football results as we are a lot worse at the moment than under Wullie. The football was at times entertaining last season too. I am just at a total loss at the moment as many others are. 

Edited by MallanandFlanagan
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Dreading that the Board will wait until Christmas/New Year and we blow the 3 or 4 massive games coming up in December.

I can't see a turnaround from this so we need a change ahead of the Edinburgh, Stirling, Annan run. Wait until January and we'll be rock bottom.

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