Partick Thistle 2 🔴🟡 Vs Greenock Morton 1 ⚪️🔵

[Nightmare]

28 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

As Highlandmagar says, the ones that are still “big teams” are OF, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. The others who were “big teams” and still portray themselves that way are Dundee. Those who were “big teams” but don’t in general put themselves across that way IMO are Dunfermline, Dundee United and possibly Kilmarnock and East Fife. The other category is clubs who are not and never were a “big team” and yet portray themselves as such, and there’s only one I can think of.

No arguments with the first sentence in this post. After that it turns into bizarre categorisations of who you think is or was a big club, and assumptions about how fans view the size of their own club, based on… well, I’m not sure what it’s based on. A few posts you’ve read on P&B?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Nightmare

[AyrshireTon]

35 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

As Highlandmagar says, the ones that are still “big teams” are OF, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. The others who were “big teams” and still portray themselves that way are Dundee. Those who were “big teams” but don’t in general put themselves across that way IMO are Dunfermline, Dundee United and possibly Kilmarnock and East Fife. The other category is clubs who are not and never were a “big team” and yet portray themselves as such, and there’s only one I can think of.

The two Edinburgh clubs and Sevco have been in the Championship recently.

You give up the title of “big club” when that happens.

[Vril]

Times change in football and historic notions of club size are not particularly useful IMO.  As recently as the 80s I would not have considered clubs like Killie & St Johnstone any bigger than Morton, but they both moved on while we stood still (or backwards!) and had sustained periods in the top flight, as well as winning several cups and playing in Europe etc so realistically they have both overtaken Morton and are both well ahead of us now.  This shift has taken place over a 30-40 year period, and I believe that turning it around would probably take us being successful and well run for a similar amount of time. 

Livi & St Mirren are also currently doing very well too, but I do not include them in this example because neither of them have had that sustained success of Kilmarnock or St Johnstone, and as such I believe that it would be achievable for Morton to reach their levels over the next 3-5 years if we continue to be as well run as we currently are.  I would even go as far as to say that they are both good examples of how a club of our size should aspire to be run

Partick, Dunfermline & Dundee are in a similar position to us insofaras they have all had prolonged periods without great success, suffered multiple relegations & flirted with insolvency to varying extents, so cannot realistically consider themselves as "big" based on where they were in the 30+ years ago.  Although admittedly they have all undoubtedly performed better than us over this period of time (spent some time in the top flight, haven't went all the way down to the bottom tier) so haven't fallen quite as far as Morton.

[jagsfan57]

2 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

As Highlandmagar says, the ones that are still “big teams” are OF, Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen. The others who were “big teams” and still portray themselves that way are Dundee. Those who were “big teams” but don’t in general put themselves across that way IMO are Dunfermline, Dundee United and possibly Kilmarnock and East Fife. The other category is clubs who are not and never were a “big team” and yet portray themselves as such, and there’s only one I can think of.

Those other big teams you have mentioned - how did you come up with them ?

[DreamOakTree1]

53 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said:

Those other big teams you have mentioned - how did you come up with them ?

Probably past achievements, trophies won, fan bases etc (though many moons ago in East Fife’s case). 

[jagsfan57]

54 minutes ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

Probably past achievements, trophies won, fan bases etc (though many moons ago in East Fife’s case). 

What’s your criteria for each then ? It feels like a stab in the dark and probably  cases to be made for a few more big teams at least.

[RigaTONi]

East Fife Fucking hell

[DreamOakTree1]

1 hour ago, RigaTONi said:

East Fife Fucking hell

3 league cups, 1 Scottish cup. I suppose on that basis I’d need to include Queens Park!

[jagsfan57]

14 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

3 league cups, 1 Scottish cup. I suppose on that basis I’d need to include Queens Park!

So your criteria is the number of major trophies won and including Dunfermline as a big team you’ve set the bar at 2.If you want to exclude Thistle, you better go away and have another think about what you think a big team is or was.

[btb]

My take on it

Tier 1 The OF

Tier 2 Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts

Tier 3 F/T Teams - Rest of the Premiership, Championship (apart from Arbroath), Lg.1 Dunfermline, Falkirk QotS (?)

Tier 4 P/T teams

******************

The is obviously some sorta ranking within the tiers, but working it out precisely is best left to maniacs. 

Usually there is 1 P/T overperforming and above the worst managed F/T teams.

Some Dundee Utd. fans think they should be in Tier 2 but I'd place them in Tier 3.

Of the Tier 3 clubs the Fakes have been the most successful this millennium, it is for this and the.fact that they try to steal our nickname that I hates them!

Edited January 11, 2023 by btb

[DreamOakTree1]

1 hour ago, jagsfan57 said:

So your criteria is the number of major trophies won and including Dunfermline as a big team you’ve set the bar at 2.If you want to exclude Thistle, you better go away and have another think about what you think a big team is or was.

Bear with me. I started typing the criteria and stats on here last night and it got so late I decided I’d go back to it this morning, but I’ve lost the whole post! In the process I realised I needed to add a couple of teams so I’ll do it in tabular form then paste it on here.

[baba douche]

3 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

Bear with me. I started typing the criteria and stats on here last night and it got so late I decided I’d go back to it this morning, but I’ve lost the whole post! In the process I realised I needed to add a couple of teams so I’ll do it in tabular form then paste it on here.

 

[thisal]

f**k me. What is happening here.

 

[RigaTONi]

My dicks bigger than your dick etc.

 

[Virtual Insanity]

5 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

 I’ll do it in tabular form then paste it on here.

Please don't. 

[jagfox]

5 hours ago, DreamOakTree1 said:

Bear with me. I started typing the criteria and stats on here last night and it got so late I decided I’d go back to it this morning, but I’ve lost the whole post! In the process I realised I needed to add a couple of teams so I’ll do it in tabular form then paste it on here.

[George Caplin]

On 10/01/2023 at 17:05, Vril said:

Times change in football and historic notions of club size are not particularly useful IMO.  As recently as the 80s I would not have considered clubs like Killie & St Johnstone any bigger than Morton, but they both moved on while we stood still (or backwards!) and had sustained periods in the top flight, as well as winning several cups and playing in Europe etc so realistically they have both overtaken Morton and are both well ahead of us now.  This shift has taken place over a 30-40 year period, and I believe that turning it around would probably take us being successful and well run for a similar amount of time. 

Livi & St Mirren are also currently doing very well too, but I do not include them in this example because neither of them have had that sustained success of Kilmarnock or St Johnstone, and as such I believe that it would be achievable for Morton to reach their levels over the next 3-5 years if we continue to be as well run as we currently are.  I would even go as far as to say that they are both good examples of how a club of our size should aspire to be run

Partick, Dunfermline & Dundee are in a similar position to us insofaras they have all had prolonged periods without great success, suffered multiple relegations & flirted with insolvency to varying extents, so cannot realistically consider themselves as "big" based on where they were in the 30+ years ago.  Although admittedly they have all undoubtedly performed better than us over this period of time (spent some time in the top flight, haven't went all the way down to the bottom tier) so haven't fallen quite as far as Morton.

Doesn't take that long to turn things around. Look at Livi, win a league with bit of momentum and next thing your in the top league. Can happen to Livi it can happen to Morton 

[DreamOakTree1]

Anyway here it is attached, big team / wee team contenders, with the exception of the top five. As I said I had to add a couple of teams when I was surprised by their stats. Unfortunately Morton didn't make it.

Big Teams or Wee Teams.pdf

[jaggymct]

This is a good gauge of things, good to see Thistle 10th ... morton at 17th seems fair also

https://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_table/sco-premiership/

 

[Arnold Layne]

2 hours ago, jaggymct said:

This is a good gauge of things, good to see Thistle 10th ... morton at 17th seems fair also

https://www.worldfootball.net/alltime_table/sco-premiership/

 

Basing this table on points per game (assuming table is adjusted to 3 points for a win), Thistle are 11th and Morton 21st. Morton fans will be pleased to know that St Mirren drop to 20th, just 0.0027477 points per game above them. Should St Mirren lose their next 3 games and Morton win their next 2, St Mirren would drop below them.