Glasgow teacher murder

[ICTJohnboy]

Desperately sad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65416819

[Guest ICTFCwife]

12 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

Desperately sad.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65416819

Absolutely horrific especially given she was 29 weeks pregnant. 

[IrishBhoy]

The reasons behind this murder and suicide are beyond comprehension for a normal person, there is no situation I can conceive of being involved in where this would be a desired outcome. Without knowing any of the circumstances you can only assume that there has been a massive break down of this man’s mental health, which is obviously still no excuse for something as horrific as this, but it’s the only way I can comprehend it. Three lives lost and one before it had even started, it’s sad beyond belief and I can only imagine what the relatives of the family are going through. 

[Lurkst]

Horrendous, really feel for the staff and pupils at her school.

 

[djchapsticks]

I worked quite closely with David Yates for around 6 months in a previous company around four years ago.

Honest to God, a less likely candidate for doing something as horrendous as this, you'll never meet. He was, on the outside, a genuinely gentle, happy-go-lucky, extroverted guy and actually spoke about his girlfriend quite a lot (I don't think they were engaged at that point) and how they were both big into their performances - he was doing a show at the Kings at the time about Elvis and he actually had the lead part as Elvis. I remember being quite taken aback by that as I thought it was pretty impressive that playing a lead role in the Kings was his side gig.

His last day, he made a moderate sized mess of something (nothing a few apologies to a few touchier accounts and uppity internal departments couldn't fix) and he was nearly in tears as he felt it looked like he was fucking it up as an act of defiance and I remember having a laugh with him and saying I need to remember to pull the same shit on my last day.

I'm totally shocked by the events that have transpired and shocked that someone like him is responsible for it. Truly bizarre feelings about this throughout the day and seeing the guy's face all over the press as he's done a clearly monstrous thing but I just can't put him and that crime together on any level.

Horrible, awful story.

Edited April 27, 2023 by djchapsticks

[djchapsticks]

59 minutes ago, IrishBhoy said:

The reasons behind this murder and suicide are beyond comprehension for a normal person, there is no situation I can conceive of being involved in where this would be a desired outcome. Without knowing any of the circumstances you can only assume that there has been a massive break down of this man’s mental health, which is obviously still no excuse for something as horrific as this, but it’s the only way I can comprehend it. Three lives lost and one before it had even started, it’s sad beyond belief and I can only imagine what the relatives of the family are going through. 

That's what I keep telling myself as well. It's the only thing I can imagine that begins to make sense as there was never so much as an eyebrow raised about him, his behaviour or his state of mind. He was a genuinely sound guy and I am saying that as an anti-social fucker who hated about 80% of the folk I worked with in that place.

[TxRover]

17 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

His last day, he made a moderate sized mess of something (nothing a few apologies to a few touchier accounts and uppity internal departments couldn't fix) and he was nearly in tears as he felt it looked like he was fucking it up as an act of defiance and I remember having a laugh with him and saying I need to remember to pull the same shit on my last day.

11 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That's what I keep telling myself as well. It's the only thing I can imagine that begins to make sense as there was never so much as an eyebrow raised about him, his behaviour or his state of mind. He was a genuinely sound guy and I am saying that as an anti-social fucker who hated about 80% of the folk I worked with in that place.

What you describe certainly makes me suspect he was, at least partially, not nearly as confident and happy go lucky as he made it appear. There are people who suffer quietly and never cry out, and it sounds terribly like this situation. It’s horrific, and I can’t comprehend either what was going on/happened or what you are feeling now with your understanding of a person completely upended. I would highly recommend getting in touch with a counselor to discuss this and better move forward. It’s well and easy to say or pretend it doesn’t affect you, but I know full well it does, even when we deny it.

[IrishBhoy]

7 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That's what I keep telling myself as well. It's the only thing I can imagine that begins to make sense as there was never so much as an eyebrow raised about him, his behaviour or his state of mind. He was a genuinely sound guy and I am saying that as an anti-social fucker who hated about 80% of the folk I worked with in that place.

It’s accepted that we will never truly know how the mind works, and as much as this is a horrific crime that people are rightly horrified by, I can’t help but feel by the picture painted of their relationship that this hasn’t been a premeditated act but more a cataclysmic mental health episode that has resulted in the most tragic of circumstances. I’m no expert so I could be wrong but you don’t travel the Scottish countryside taking doting pictures of your pregnant fiancé days before you plan to murder her, your unborn baby and then take your own life after it. 
 

I had a close friend who was silently battling anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts, and even though I spoke to him regularly and was with him two or three times a week I was oblivious to what was going on in his head. Literally had no idea, he always had a smile on his face and never acted out of character. Without me knowing he went to the accident and emergency at the RAH one day, and told them he was having suicidal thoughts and he needed help. They kept him in for a few hours before letting him go home in a taxi, where he got out near a railway line and committed suicide by going in front of a train. I’ve always thought I should have spotted something but I console myself with the fact that you can never truly know what is going on in someone’s head when their exterior paints a different picture. Thankfully I’ve never experienced anything like that and I hope I never do, but how can you comprehend the actions of someone whose state of mind has gotten to such a stage where death is the only answer. 

[G_&_T]

31 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I worked quite closely with David Yates for around 6 months in a previous company around four years ago.

Honest to God, a less likely candidate for doing something as horrendous as this, you'll never meet. He was, on the outside, a genuinely gentle, happy-go-lucky, extroverted guy and actually spoke about his girlfriend quite a lot (I don't think they were engaged at that point) and how they were both big into their performances - he was doing a show at the Kings at the time about Elvis and he actually had the lead part as Elvis. I remember being quite taken aback by that as I thought it was pretty impressive that playing a lead role in the Kings was his side gig.

His last day, he made a moderate sized mess of something (nothing a few apologies to a few touchier accounts and uppity internal departments couldn't fix) and he was nearly in tears as he felt it looked like he was fucking it up as an act of defiance and I remember having a laugh with him and saying I need to remember to pull the same shit on my last day.

I'm totally shocked by the events that have transpired and shocked that someone like him is responsible for it. Truly bizarre feelings about this throughout the day and seeing the guy's face all over the press as he's done a clearly monstrous thing but I just can't put him and that crime together on any level.

Horrible, awful story.

That's genuinely fascinating to read a personal insight into this man's life. 

I've known a couple of people who've committed suicide. One lady got out of her car and jumped off a bridge on the way to work. A guy I knew hanged himself in his garage. The surprising thing about both is it was totally unexpected.

Obviously this is far worse, as he's not only taken his own life, but that of his partner and unborn child. As @IrishBhoy and @TxRover have suggested, he must have had poor mental health; indeed that's an understatement. I cannot imagine the devastation he has caused to his family, his partner's family and their friends. He will forever be remembered 'as that guy who killed his pregnant wife.' Apologies if that seems insensitive, but it's true. 

I think this sort of incident is why the stigma surrounding mental health has to end. If people could seek treatment without feeling shame or embarrassment, then this sort of tragic event would likely be averted. Though, speaking from experience, I know the mental health system is grossly underfunded and it can takes months to see a professional, but that's a whole other issue.

Tragic.

 

[TxRover]

18 minutes ago, G_&_T said:

That's genuinely fascinating to read a personal insight into this man's life. 

I've known a couple of people who've committed suicide. One lady got out of her car and jumped off a bridge on the way to work. A guy I knew hanged himself in his garage. The surprising thing about both is it was totally unexpected.

Obviously this is far worse, as he's not only taken his own life, but that of his partner and unborn child. As @IrishBhoy and @TxRover have suggested, he must have had poor mental health; indeed that's an understatement. I cannot imagine the devastation he has caused to his family, his partner's family and their friends. He will forever be remembered 'as that guy who killed his pregnant wife.' Apologies if that seems insensitive, but it's true. 

I think this sort of incident is why the stigma surrounding mental health has to end. If people could seek treatment without feeling shame or embarrassment, then this sort of tragic event would likely be averted. Though, speaking from experience, I know the mental health system is grossly underfunded and it can takes months to see a professional, but that's a whole other issue.

Tragic.

 

Indeed, mental health needs to move from the shadows and whispers. So much tragedy and sorrow might be reduced or avoided with proper mental health treatments, and that’s a horrific issue in ‘Merica today, let alone in places with reasonably available medical care.

[IrishBhoy]

17 minutes ago, TxRover said:

Indeed, mental health needs to move from the shadows and whispers. So much tragedy and sorrow might be reduced or avoided with proper mental health treatments, and that’s a horrific issue in ‘Merica today, let alone in places with reasonably available medical care.

I think a lot of the problems around the treatment of mental health stem from a lack of understanding on the part of people who cant empathise with just how dark the mind can become.  
 

To someone of sound mental health who has been lucky enough to get through their life without suffering with periods of depression, anxiety etc., how can they be expected to understand someone sitting in-front of them telling them that they want to jump in front of a train? That they have ran through every possible scenario in their head a million times over and they have came to the conclusion that the only option they have left is to end their life? Most people would rightly find that extremely hard to understand, but you would hope that someone trained in dealing with these kind of situations would be able to spot the warning signs and direct them to the help they need. 
 

A mental health nurse who spoke to my friend hours before he committed suicide said she didn’t deem him as a high risk patient because he was able to hold a conversation with her. He was given a glass of water and put into a room for a few hours until he was told they could phone him a taxi if he wanted to go home. I don’t want to be too harsh because it’s an endlessly complicated subject, and I don’t know what specific training they get in dealing with these situations, but if someone is able to hold a conversation with you but the words coming out of their mouth are ‘I want to end my life’, then I would deem that pretty high risk. 

[budmiester1]

5 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

I think a lot of the problems around the treatment of mental health stem from a lack of understanding on the part of people who cant empathise with just how dark the mind can become.  
 

To someone of sound mental health who has been lucky enough to get through their life without suffering with periods of depression, anxiety etc., how can they be expected to understand someone sitting in-front of them telling them that they want to jump in front of a train? That they have ran through every possible scenario in their head a million times over and they have came to the conclusion that the only option they have left is to end their life? Most people would rightly find that extremely hard to understand, but you would hope that someone trained in dealing with these kind of situations would be able to spot the warning signs and direct them to the help they need. 
 

A mental health nurse who spoke to my friend hours before he committed suicide said she didn’t deem him as a high risk patient because he was able to hold a conversation with her. He was given a glass of water and put into a room for a few hours until he was told they could phone him a taxi if he wanted to go home. I don’t want to be too harsh because it’s an endlessly complicated subject, and I don’t know what specific training they get in dealing with these situations, but if someone is able to hold a conversation with you but the words coming out of their mouth are ‘I want to end my life’, then I would deem that pretty high risk. 

The level of mental health care here is shameful, In my past employment I had to deal regularly with the consequences of mental health problems and it’s highly likely that I had to deal with your friends suicide ( Milliken Park ?) I’ve lost count of the number of people who have been turned away from help who then taken their lives shortly afterwards. To me it’s the complete lack of mental resources available on the NHS. The railway have now to their credit implemented a Samaritan helpline and according to my ex colleagues it is helping a good deal. We as a nation really need to invest heavily in mental health.

[djchapsticks]

6 hours ago, G_&_T said:

He will forever be remembered 'as that guy who killed his pregnant wife.' Apologies if that seems insensitive, but it's true. 

That's unavoidable. 16 years after Pro Wrestler Chris Benoit murdered his wife and child before hanging himself, his name is still pretty much blackballed and his history deleted despite having a career that was exemplary, being known as an amazing father and being ridiculously respected by fans and his peers in life.

Even his surviving son to this day struggles to break into the business because of his name and the fact that he's the spitting image of his dad.

People still to this day try and make sense of it all. Mental health struggles, roid rage, a mercy killing of his 'ill' child, brain damage from so many unprotected head shots over the 20 years of his career (his post mortem showed him having the brain health of an 80 year old dementia sufferer) and even conspiracy theories were all blamed.

People will always try to make sense where there honestly is none. There are shades of that here.

[IrishBhoy]

1 minute ago, budmiester1 said:

The level of mental health care here is shameful, In my past employment I had to deal regularly with the consequences of mental health problems and it’s highly likely that I had to deal with your friends suicide ( Milliken Park ?) I’ve lost count of the number of people who have been turned away from help who then taken their lives shortly afterwards. To me it’s the complete lack of mental resources available on the NHS. The railway have now to their credit implemented a Samaritan helpline and according to my ex colleagues it is helping a good deal. We as a nation really need to invest heavily in mental health.

No it wasn’t Milliken Park it was further along the line at Linwood Toll, although it was 6 and half years ago now. 
 

Agree with what you say though there’s not enough put in to mental health services and I think they struggle to recruit competent staff due to just how tough the job can be. It’s a job I certainly couldn’t do so I commend anyone who does, but there’s still a tendency to shy away from these awkward situations and hope for the best. It seems like it’s been talked about for years how mental health services are ignored in the NHS and nothing really seems to change. 

[budmiester1]

Just now, IrishBhoy said:

No it wasn’t Milliken Park it was further along the line at Linwood Toll, although it was 6 and half years ago now. 
 

Agree with what you say though there’s not enough put in to mental health services and I think they struggle to recruit competent staff due to just how tough the job can be. It’s a job I certainly couldn’t do so I commend anyone who does, but there’s still a tendency to shy away from these awkward situations and hope for the best. It seems like it’s been talked about for years how mental health services are ignored in the NHS and nothing really seems to change. 

I think I remember your friends incident but I wasn’t involved. When I started in the BTP many moons ago if you found a vulnerable person you’d take them to the nearest A&E department and they would have a CPN on the case very quickly, by the time I retired you could be there for 24 hours before you saw sight of anyone remotely qualified to help.

[IrishBhoy]

Just now, budmiester1 said:

I think I remember your friends incident but I wasn’t involved. When I started in the BTP many moons ago if you found a vulnerable person you’d take them to the nearest A&E department and they would have a CPN on the case very quickly, by the time I retired you could be there for 24 hours before you saw sight of anyone remotely qualified to help.

It was the fact that my friend had actively tried to seek out help first by turning up at A&E only for him to end up going ahead with it 20 minutes after he left the hospital. His family especially felt very let down and you can’t help but think if there was a qualified and competent MH nurse speaking to him that day he may still be here.
 

Don’t grudge the BTP being first on the scene at some of these suicide incidents, can only imagine what you’ve seen after a train strike. 

[ICTChris]

Just a horrendous case. Unspeakably awful.

Sadly domestic violence is relatively common during pregnancy. 

[Jacksgranda]

9 hours ago, IrishBhoy said:

 

I had a close friend who was silently battling anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts, and even though I spoke to him regularly and was with him two or three times a week I was oblivious to what was going on in his head. Literally had no idea, he always had a smile on his face and never acted out of character. Without me knowing he went to the accident and emergency at the RAH one day, and told them he was having suicidal thoughts and he needed help. They kept him in for a few hours before letting him go home in a taxi, where he got out near a railway line and committed suicide by going in front of a train. I’ve always thought I should have spotted something but I console myself with the fact that you can never truly know what is going on in someone’s head when their exterior paints a different picture. Thankfully I’ve never experienced anything like that and I hope I never do, but how can you comprehend the actions of someone whose state of mind has gotten to such a stage where death is the only answer. 

I had an acquaintance who committed suicide - it seemed out of the blue, but who knows - his life seemed to be getting back on track, after a rocky patch. He was in the RUC, and that maybe didn't help, this was 35 odd years ago. His wife also worked for the police if I recall correctly, not sure if a civilian worker or an actual policewoman, so their social circle would have been pretty limited back then in terms of being able to talk to people.

Came as a real shock to all who knew him.

[Stephen Malkmus]

Maybe we should also be sparing a thought for the mental and physical wellbeing of the women living with the men with these issues.

[IrishBhoy]

On 28/04/2023 at 10:36, Stephen Malkmus said:

Maybe we should also be sparing a thought for the mental and physical wellbeing of the women living with the men with these issues.

Of course. In this particular case there is no defending the actions of this man, wether MH played a part or not, and what he has done is still an evil, wicked act that he should never have carried out. I would say the majority of relationships between men and women will inevitably have one or the other dealing with some level of mental health issues, wether on a small scale or something more serious. 99.9% of the time there will be no physical harm done, which makes the barbarity of this particular case so hard to comprehend with 3 people losing their lives in horrific circumstances. I might be wrong but I don’t think I’ve heard of a murder/suicide with an unborn baby involved happening in Scotland in my lifetime. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by IrishBhoy