Skyline Drifter Posted November 24, 2023 Share Posted November 24, 2023 On 16/10/2023 at 07:30, Broken Algorithms said: It really is an absurd achievement. We've never qualified as smoothly as far as I'm aware. We don't have to worry about a trip to Tbilisi or Haaland at Hampden. To get through this group with games to spare shouldn't be something that's happened, but here we are. He'll be absolutely immortalised if we can get through the groups, and there's no reason we can't. I'm a big fan of Stevie Clark but I think we also have to bear in mind its never been easier to reach a major finals in terms of percentage of competitors. 21 automatic qualifers from Europe. Even getting to last 16 isnt the achievement Roxburgh had in qualifying for the last 8 in 1992, and effectively finishing 5th/6th in it. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted November 24, 2023 Author Share Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) I think it's best to just take qualification for what it is and the good that comes from it. You could debate endlessly about more teams qualifying nowadays against a higher number of better quality teams involved in qualification in the present day. Edited November 24, 2023 by 2426255 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 This is a month old, but I hadn't seen the full interview until now nor had I seen it posted. Just putting it up for the benefit of those who didn't see it or weren't aware of it. Really good interview which covers a lot of ground in decent detail. (30 minutes long) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 (edited) On 21/02/2024 at 00:11, 2426255 said: Georgia v Scotland. Start of the 2nd half - you can see the difference in build up when we have an extra man. https://streamable.com/ppevp1 First clip is 7v7, Patterson and Taylor are easy passes. Zander Clark is also free, but not involved. In the second clip, Chakvetadze drops off McGregor creating a 2v3 in Scotland's favour. Scotland exploit it and score. I've noticed a pattern of play that we use a fair bit in build-up. We form a back-4 shape, midfielder drops and a wing back pushes up high. I first noticed it against Ireland in Dublin. It was used a lot in the 1st-half, playing out the right through Hendry and Ralston. It's in the recent Georgia v Scotland game quoted above, but the video below is from the France game and it was used to help us play out the left through McKenna and Taylor. The interesting thing for me is it comes up whether we play with a back-5 or a back-4. Doesn't matter the formation or personnel. It's so obviously a pattern of play that's been trained - We're not bad at it either and it's quite effective at getting us upfield which is a bonus. https://streamable.com/st2lq1 Edited March 7 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Clarke does seem to effortlessly trigger a certain fanbase.... 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, KingRocketman II said: Clarke does seem to effortlessly trigger a certain fanbase.... conveniently forgetting the part a Sevconian played in the loss ! ! ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordopolis Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, KingRocketman II said: Clarke does seem to effortlessly trigger a certain fanbase.... Steve Clarke but 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishZizou Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Think this Euro’s performance will define the Clarke era. He has been a good Scotland manager but failure to get through the groups here and it’s tough to say his tenure has been a success. If we don’t get through it will be multiple instances of falling short of achieving anything substantial like making the last 16 of the euros or making a World Cup. Get through here and it will be a proper achievement. Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland have all made it out the groups at a Euros in the last decade. If he were to have two attempts and not achieve the same it would be pretty poor. We have been more consistent but achieved nothing yet that is beyond our capabilities. It seems a bit arbitrary that three games can define so many years but that’s just the nature of international management 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocketman Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 25 minutes ago, ScottishZizou said: Think this Euro’s performance will define the Clarke era. He has been a good Scotland manager but failure to get through the groups here and it’s tough to say his tenure has been a success. If we don’t get through it will be multiple instances of falling short of achieving anything substantial like making the last 16 of the euros or making a World Cup. Get through here and it will be a proper achievement. Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland have all made it out the groups at a Euros in the last decade. If he were to have two attempts and not achieve the same it would be pretty poor. We have been more consistent but achieved nothing yet that is beyond our capabilities. It seems a bit arbitrary that three games can define so many years but that’s just the nature of international management don't agree. His time has undoubtedly been a success - two qualifications after years in the wilderness. I was critical of Clarke going into the the Euros and immediately afterwards (inc our abject WC qualifying play-off) as we were still really disjointed on the park and I didn't think he was getting the best out a talented group of players at his disposal. However a second successive qualification, numerous fantastic performances inc Spain at home, and even barring last night's late collapse, some of the football we were playing, away to the Netherlands it should be noted, was really top drawer stuff. I If you consider everything, and particularly our record since 1998, he has undoubtedly been a success - that stands regardless as to whether we make it past the group stages or not in the summer. When he does decide to pack up and perhaps a return to club management, I believe the calibre of clubs approaching him will be testament to that. I doubt he will elect to go Birmingham City. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 To judge Clarke based only on tournament results is one dimensional. I fear anything other than qualifying from the groups will be deemed a failure by the masses, but he's been a success in my book. What is our maximum? we aren't going to win the Euro's, so maybe QF's at absolute best. I think if we are competitive in all the group games and we miss out with a bit of bad luck or all the small margin crap I would be okay with that. I don't expect somewhere close to our maximum as being the minimum for success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Must go 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishZizou Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 29 minutes ago, KingRocketman II said: don't agree. His time has undoubtedly been a success - two qualifications after years in the wilderness. I was critical of Clarke going into the the Euros and immediately afterwards (inc our abject WC qualifying play-off) as we were still really disjointed on the park and I didn't think he was getting the best out a talented group of players at his disposal. However a second successive qualification, numerous fantastic performances inc Spain at home, and even barring last night's late collapse, some of the football we were playing, away to the Netherlands it should be noted, was really top drawer stuff. I If you consider everything, and particularly our record since 1998, he has undoubtedly been a success - that stands regardless as to whether we make it past the group stages or not in the summer. When he does decide to pack up and perhaps a return to club management, I believe the calibre of clubs approaching him will be testament to that. I doubt he will elect to go Birmingham City. But qualifications now aren’t the same as qualifications previously. Pre 2016 qualifying equals the same as getting through the groups at the current euros set up. That’s like saying that any time we almost got to the euros previously was a success if we apply the same metrics. The last euros was very poor, losing at home to Ukraine in a World Cup playoff was also very poor. They then got handled by Wales and off they went to the World Cup. Clarke has done well but if the extent of our ambition is to achieve something that is worse than Northern Ireland and Ireland have achieved in the past decade and way way less than Wales then that’s a pretty sorry state of affairs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 1 hour ago, ScottishZizou said: Think this Euro’s performance will define the Clarke era. He has been a good Scotland manager but failure to get through the groups here and it’s tough to say his tenure has been a success. If we don’t get through it will be multiple instances of falling short of achieving anything substantial like making the last 16 of the euros or making a World Cup. Get through here and it will be a proper achievement. Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland have all made it out the groups at a Euros in the last decade. If he were to have two attempts and not achieve the same it would be pretty poor. We have been more consistent but achieved nothing yet that is beyond our capabilities. It seems a bit arbitrary that three games can define so many years but that’s just the nature of international management I dont know, id say even if we finish bottom of the group then he has still been a success. Hes qualified us twice so its an improvement. But id say that would be the correct time for him to leave. But your correct its easier to get to the euros. Also its a stronger squad and team than we have had in years. 35 minutes ago, 2426255 said: To judge Clarke based only on tournament results is one dimensional. I fear anything other than qualifying from the groups will be deemed a failure by the masses, but he's been a success in my book. What else are we to judge him on other than performance? The name of the game is to win games, qualify and then do well at the tournament. Theres no other criteria, its international football, you judge it on results. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 I disagree. You can lose despite playing very well , as opposed to losing playing **** ! In all the competitive games mentioned I do not remember us giving up / not creating some chances ! The defence still needs to improve against top teams and obviously we need to take our chances ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 29 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said: What else are we to judge him on other than performance? The name of the game is to win games, qualify and then do well at the tournament. Theres no other criteria, its international football, you judge it on results. Add context to those results. How did the team perform and were the results merited. We lost 4-nil last night, but we didn't merit losing 4-nil so that's a mitigation for what superficially is a really poor result. Also factor in wider elements such as things being influenced off the park such as facilities, willingness to bring on the younger players etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Bing Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 16 minutes ago, 2426255 said: Add context to those results. How did the team perform and were the results merited. We lost 4-nil last night, but we didn't merit losing 4-nil so that's a mitigation for what superficially is a really poor result. Also factor in wider elements such as things being influenced off the park such as facilities, willingness to bring on the younger players etc. I dont think anyone is judging Clarke on the result one one friendly game. Or that would even come in to account. You look at the results on the whole. I dont care about facilities or if hes brought young players in, anyone could do that. Its wether hes winning games or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 3 hours ago, ScottishZizou said: Think this Euro’s performance will define the Clarke era. He has been a good Scotland manager but failure to get through the groups here and it’s tough to say his tenure has been a success. If we don’t get through it will be multiple instances of falling short of achieving anything substantial like making the last 16 of the euros or making a World Cup. Get through here and it will be a proper achievement. Wales, Ireland and Northern Ireland have all made it out the groups at a Euros in the last decade. If he were to have two attempts and not achieve the same it would be pretty poor. We have been more consistent but achieved nothing yet that is beyond our capabilities. It seems a bit arbitrary that three games can define so many years but that’s just the nature of international management We’re talking about Scotland who can never get past the group stages and who had a song titled ‘Don’t Come Home Too Soon” as their anthem at the last World Cup they were at. Steve Clarke’s done just fine. If we do our usual and get papped out in the group stage it won’t exactly be a shock. You could pretty much write it now. Plucky performance in the opener with the hosts, where we lose to a late goal, but put in a performance that has everyone saying “do that against the other two and we’ll be fine”. Spirited draw with Switzerland. Unlucky defeat to Hungary. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 6 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: You could pretty much write it now. Plucky performance in the opener with the hosts, where we lose to a late goal, but put in a performance that has everyone saying “do that against the other two and we’ll be fine”. Spirited draw with Switzerland. Unlucky defeat to Hungary. From experience the first two will be right, but we'll take a bedshitting horsing in the must win final game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted March 23 Author Share Posted March 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bing.McCrosby said: I dont think anyone is judging Clarke on the result one one friendly game. Or that would even come in to account. You look at the results on the whole. I dont care about facilities or if hes brought young players in, anyone could do that. Its wether hes winning games or not. That's always been your opinion. You were absolutely gagging to have him sacked for not getting results at Euro-2020 and in the Ukraine playoff game, were you not? Thought you might have learned your lesson. Guess not so best of luck with that opinion. Edited March 23 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted March 23 Share Posted March 23 Anyone who thinks a Group with the host country Germany and Europe's most improved side Hungary is going to be easy is fucking deluded. We're around Switzerlands level and I think we have a decent chance against them but we could quite easily get scudded in the other two. Especially if we don't have our best 11 fit and ready. Steve Clarke should be judged in how many tournaments we qualify for and if we give a decent account of ourselves when we get there. A decent account is playing well and not getting thumped by the big nations. Folk thinking ahead of this are the same types that probably thought Scotland were winning Argentina 78. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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