Highlandmagar Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Anyone who defends Clarke after this,abject tournament are only being SFA fanboys. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoonTon Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 The biggest problems remain the same. Who's the best Scottish centre back to emerge this century? Hanley? McManus? Caldwell? Mulgrew? And striker - McFadden? Miller? We've had enough good, if not exactly world class, midfielders. We've had some good full backs. But we've been lacking in two pretty vital areas of the pitch for a long time. It's going to be a struggle until we remedy that somewhat. That being said, last night felt like the most pathetic way to exit a tournament. I hated the approach and it doesn't help that I didn't want Clarke to take the approach he did. This tournament performance wasn't the best we were capable of - by a long way. We embarrassed ourselves. If Clarke is going to continue he has to properly develop alternative approaches and not rely on plan A or bust. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 59 minutes ago, Piehutt said: This is nonsense. You don't do as well as he has and last at the top level like this. He is obviously a student of the game and has embraced the analytics and modern coaching. As well as he has? He was sacked by West Brom and Reading? He did a good job at Kilmarnock, but that’s not the top level. He has had no success managing at the top level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 5 hours ago, SH Panda said: He will certainly stay, and I'm glad he will. No need for the hand wringing in the tournament, we could have played better but the reality is we were the smallest and lowest ranked country in the group. Hungary game could have gone either way, or finished the draw, but they are a good side - they hammered England 4-0 recently. We will be fine. I would take qualifying for the next 10 tournaments if it meant going out at the group stage. As it is, I think we will qualify for most euros and maybe 1 in 4 world cups. The never reaching the knockout stages is a bit of a distortion that always goes unqualified, Scotland have been in the last 8 of the euros and the last 16 of the world cup plenty of times. It's a fact about formatting, more than performance. I’m not sure settling for being eternally rubbish, just so a few lads can have a party abroad, is the way to go. Although, I would like to see us at a World Cup again. In the old days we’d maybe win a game and still go out. I preferred that approach. LDL doesn’t do it for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 30 minutes ago, KirkieRR said: And even if we got someone good, would there be any investment in grassroots, any changes to our skewed club game? How would any of that help the next manager? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Oh, and if I see that useless gobshite Pat Nevin on my social media giving positive score predictions again, I will hunt him down and give him a stern talking too. Snake oil salesman, and I am the gullible punter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BERNI Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 37 minutes ago, Numbers_One_To_Eleven said: It was a one goal shoot-out type of game. It was a very cautious style but who’s to say we wouldn’t be picked off if we had gone more adventurous from the start, I think that was probable with this crop of players. I mean, let’s go toe-to-toe but I don’t trust Che Adam’s for goals up front (clearly we can get goals from deeper). In the past, many have bemoaned that we have gone away from being hard-to-beat, that’s how we’re set-up under Clarke these days. I genuinely don’t trust us to go for it without getting picked off. Penalty given (and scored), we hold on and we all go crazy! Fine margins. Scotland done nothing in 3 games, Hungary goalie had nothing to do, much like the German and Swiss goalies in previous games, as for the "penalty" decision, VAR would have checked and you can clearly see that Armstrong is offside when the ball is played to him, so no penalty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Calder Lion Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 The group of players available to Clarke is the best a Scotland manager has had available for over 20 years. Yet here we are going out with barely a whimper. Scotland qualified for the Euros in spite of Clarke, not because of him. The fist pump after failing to beat Switzerland and the general defensive approach in that game coupled with yesterday's abject failure should be the end of Clarke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Scotch Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 6 hours ago, 2426255 said: If I believed that correlation implied a causation I might say that maybe Hungary looked worse because we were playing with three centre-backs. When we moved to two I thought they looked better. Therefore playing a back-4 must have been a poor move tactically. I don't believe that, but that's how those arguments are constructed. You're just trying to sound like a total smart arse now, a laptop manager. It really isn't that difficult to understand, playing with three clunky CB's slows down our build up of attack as Gilmour for example would have to constantly run upto them to take the ball. The extra seconds it takes allows the other team to get into a better shape and then there is one less option ahead of him to play a ball into. The idea of playing the 3 CBs is to make us more defensively sound, clogging up the centre of the pitch to make it more difficult to play through. The offset of that is we have one less creative player on the pitch, someone that can actually take the the game to the opposition, someone we could of done with throughout the entire 90 minutes considering it was a must win game. Hungary looked threatening at the end due to us pushing bodies forward in an act of pure desperation by Clarke to try win the game. This is all on Clarke, started off trying not to lose first and foremost, very conservative style of play from the outset leaving us no other option than being desperate towards the end to win the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, East Calder Lion said: The group of players available to Clarke is the best a Scotland manager has had available for over 20 years. Yet here we are going out with barely a whimper. Scotland qualified for the Euros in spite of Clarke, not because of him. The fist pump after failing to beat Switzerland and the general defensive approach in that game coupled with yesterday's abject failure should be the end of Clarke. Some of them are but we still have a fairly large amount of players who aren’t amazing. We still start matches with the likes of Hendry & Porteous (for all I think they have generally been good for Scotland) they aren’t exactly top-drawer players. Especially true once the good ones get injured I.e Tierney, Hickey etc aren’t replaced with folk at the same level. When the likes of McGinn isn’t playing well, Who is his replacement? Might have been Ferguson if he hadn’t been injured etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Said this on the other thread. I like Clarke, I think he's overall done a very good job over the past few years. I'm certainly not calling for him T be sacked, but there is an argument that he's done all he can with us, and if he decides to walk I won't be too disappointed. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Gaz said: Said this on the other thread. I like Clarke, I think he's overall done a very good job over the past few years. I'm certainly not calling for him T be sacked, but there is an argument that he's done all he can with us, and if he decides to walk I won't be too disappointed. That’s a cop out. I agree he’s done a very good job over the years but I also agree he’s done as much as he can. If he cannot see that himself and is not willing to resign then he has to be removed. The performance by a number of players last night was sub par but I can only think that much/most of that is down to how Clarke instructed the players to approach the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahemps Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I would stick with Clarke for the nations league but there are a few questions about this tournament that need discussed: Gilmour should be playing every minute he is available, why is McGregor preferred to him when it is a choice or one needs subbed? The 3-5-1 that worked great early in the qualifiers went stale but nothing was done to freshen it up? What aren't we ready to go to another shape when it isn't working? Sticking with Ralston when he was totally out of his depth. Making changes to the team far too late in games and it is always the same subs, Gilmore for McLean etc. The team is crying out for something different. Morgan looked energetic for the 10 minutes he got. Conway looked the same against Finland but never got any time in Germany. Why not give others a try, plenty other countries are giving game time to young inexperienced players. Sometimes that inexperience/naivety/hungry/excited player offers something more positive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 34 minutes ago, Highlandmagar said: Anyone who defends Clarke after this,abject tournament are only being SFA fanboys. I think it's quite the opposite for some, Clarke's predecessor clearly wasn't a man who was mentally fit to be a professional manager,if they did a job interview properly this would have been obvious. The fear of them blindly appointing one of their pals again means some would rather have Clarke. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Gaz said: Said this on the other thread. I like Clarke, I think he's overall done a very good job over the past few years. I'm certainly not calling for him T be sacked, but there is an argument that he's done all he can with us, and if he decides to walk I won't be too disappointed. This is my take on things. This squad isn’t going to get any better. It’s not the players’ fault, but MacGregor, Adams and Armstrong were running on empty. Several of the players looked absolutely spent about an hour in. Not much Clarke could do about that. What he could have done is set the team up to play somewhere in between the second gear (first 80 minutes) and hell for leather (last 10). And he could have given Adams a modicum of support. It was unreal how isolated he was. Edit; the Nations League has the potential to be very painful viewing. Edited June 24 by Savage Henry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, ahemps said: I would stick with Clarke for the nations league but there are a few questions about this tournament that need discussed: The 3-5-1 that worked great early in the qualifiers went stale but nothing was done to freshen it up? I know Ralston wasn’t very good, but that’s harsh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Ferguson's Hat Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 There's a very real chance that we won't pick up another win this year. That would bring our record to 1 win in 18. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Deans Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Thanks for the effort Stevie. Now please get tae 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Problemo Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 32 minutes ago, BERNI said: Scotland done nothing in 3 games, Hungary goalie had nothing to do, much like the German and Swiss goalies in previous games, as for the "penalty" decision, VAR would have checked and you can clearly see that Armstrong is offside when the ball is played to him, so no penalty. It didn’t even come up on the screen that they were checking it, if that was the case it should have up saying there was a VAR check for a penalty and that it was then offside. On another note, I actually thought McGinn was better last night. Anything positive came through him, I thought it was utterly wild to take him off as space started to open up. I can’t even remember, but did Clarke genuinely play 83 minutes with three centre backs who can’t contribute in playing the ball out, never mind going forward? Genuinely woeful stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I fall on the side of 'he's taken us as far as he can' I think. I also have my doubts around the SFA making the correct appointment if he goes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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