LiviLion Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 The fact he went into this tournament talking about getting 4 points - not 9, or even 6 - is what puts me into the "Clarke out" camp. Sure, we weren't likely to beat Germany, but before the game kicked off he had us beat and it was just damage limitation. Then you've got the Switzerland game, again he's sticking with his 4 points schtick and we only need a draw. That game was winnable on account of Switzerland being happy with the draw, instead it's toothless again and instead of going for the win he saves his subs to run down the clock and celebrates the draw. Bringing us to last night's must win game, where it took 98 minutes for a shot on target. He took us to EURO 2020/1 through the playoffs, which was an improvement on the previous 20 years. He took us to EURO 2024 without the playoffs, which was an improvement on 4 years ago. Unfortunately the group stages went more or less the exact same, if not a bit more embarrassing this time around (but that might just be recency bias and my current state of fucking seething) I'll probably calm down in a couple months, but it feels like we've been actively declining for a good while now and I fear he's taken us as far as he can. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, LiviLion said: I'll probably calm down in a couple months, but it feels like we've been actively declining for a good while now and I fear he's taken us as far as he can. We've been in free fall since it became clear that we were going to qualify. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymcc1978 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, LiviLion said: The fact he went into this tournament talking about getting 4 points - not 9, or even 6 - is what puts me into the "Clarke out" camp. Sure, we weren't likely to beat Germany, but before the game kicked off he had us beat and it was just damage limitation. Then you've got the Switzerland game, again he's sticking with his 4 points schtick and we only need a draw. That game was winnable on account of Switzerland being happy with the draw, instead it's toothless again and instead of going for the win he saves his subs to run down the clock and celebrates the draw. Bringing us to last night's must win game, where it took 98 minutes for a shot on target. He took us to EURO 2020/1 through the playoffs, which was an improvement on the previous 20 years. He took us to EURO 2024 without the playoffs, which was an improvement on 4 years ago. Unfortunately the group stages went more or less the exact same, if not a bit more embarrassing this time around (but that might just be recency bias and my current state of fucking seething) I'll probably calm down in a couple months, but it feels like we've been actively declining for a good while now and I fear he's taken us as far as he can. unless he's got a tactical change in mind and complete new outlook on how he sees the game, i think its time to go, that style of football doesn't last long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 3 minutes ago, KnightswoodBear said: We've been in free fall since it became clear that we were going to qualify. Yes. Some incredibly poor choice of friendlies against teams much better than us that killed off any momentum we have, instead of games against teams at roughly our level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I wonder if he’ll live to regret the run of experimental friendlies against the big nations with new tactics to try and bridge that gap and take us up a level. I can see the logic but it may well be the case that we’re just not capable of it, and in the process we lost the identity that got us to the tournament. Im not clarke out, I like him and have a lot of respect for him. But this tournament has been a big negative for him. He has hampered us, no more so than last night. Reflection required on if/how he thinks he can progress this side. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Out for me. Negative shite football, crippled by fear. Scotland looked the worst side in the tournament, the facts back that up. Even Georgia who we finished above in the groups look a better, more exciting, side. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galajambo Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: I cannot stand Moyes and wouldn’t want him as Scotland manager. Oh right, so just because you don't like him, he shouldn't get the job, Jesus Christ! Let's look at this a bit, one guy has managed Everton, Man Utd, Sunderland, Real Sociedad, West Ham twice, and won a European trophy, the other has been sacked by Reading, sacked by West Brom, and managed one good season at Killie, there isn't even an argument here! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScotiaNostra Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Probably time for a change, hes done well getting us to the major tournament(s) but once there the tactics are poor, no shots on target in last nights game. Thats the tactics and manager who has to accept that is their fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymcc1978 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, Galajambo said: Oh right, so just because you don't like him, he shouldn't get the job, Jesus Christ! Let's look at this a bit, one guy has managed Everton, Man Utd, Sunderland, Real Sociedad, West Ham twice, and won a European trophy, the other has been sacked by Reading, sacked by West Brom, and managed one good season at Killie, there isn't even an argument here! one thing about moyes is , he can organise a team but at least tries to put other teams defences under a bit of pressure, dont get me wrong west ham went stale under him but that was after a considerable amount of success. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 (edited) I'm not Clarke out (yet!) but that tournament was an embarrassment. I don't think any Scotland fan *expects* to go through the groups nae bother, but I think the minimum expectation is to at least have a fucking go at doing so. Going into last night, he's set the team up to try and sneak through into the next round with 2pts. Embarrassing! The system only works when we've got our first choice XI. You can't ask Ralston to play like Hickey or Patterson. He's nowhere near their level. Asking McKenna to play the Tierney role? Genuinely wild! Adams isn't Dykes. Asking him to do that role gives you exactly what you got in this tournament. Clarke deserves every bit of criticism coming his way, and there should be plenty of it coming his way. Unless he's willing to try something different in terms of how we play and how we're set-up going forward, he's maybe best walking and letting someone else have a go. Edited June 24 by Desp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galajambo Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 1 minute ago, gerrymcc1978 said: one thing about moyes is , he can organise a team but at least tries to put other teams defences under a bit of pressure, dont get me wrong west ham went stale under him but that was after a considerable amount of success. I also think he would play players who are in form, and not his old guard favourites like Clark does, which drives me nuts! (Rangers fans would disagree though -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 He's one step away from shouting we won the Falklands war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuldReekie Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I think we're at the end of the road with Clarke. Not really sure why either party would want to continue but I hope he goes on to be remembered for a lot of the great games he's given us. The actual tournaments aside, the qualifying campaigns were mostly outstanding. When he had a fully fit team, I've seen far better both technically and tactically. So I don't consider this tournament, or the last, to be a fair reflection of Clarke's contribution. Ultimately though, you can't keep doing the same things and expect a different outcome. Last night was woeful. Utterly woeful. After spending a few days saying we'd go for the win, we looked like we were playing for a draw for 88 minutes. Gilmour is a fantastic talent but had little option to keep recycling the ball through defence. McGregor was too similar to Gilmour. Every time the centre halves got the ball, they slowed the game down, allowing Hungary to re-shape and organise. The entire system and approach to the game was overly passive. Hungary let us have the ball but when they got it, they moved it through the lines quickly, catching us out of position or out of shape. Like I said above, will always thank Clarke for some of the memories over the last few years but it's time to allow someone else a go at unlocking the potential of the squad. Some players need swapping out and some young guys now deserve an opportunity to make their mark, and a new manager needs time to experiment with a more progressive shape and approach to the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerrymcc1978 Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 2 minutes ago, Galajambo said: I also think he would play players who are in form, and not his old guard favourites like Clark does, which drives me nuts! (Rangers fans would disagree though aye I do think he'd be less loyal to some which is good but wait and see what happens with clarke first. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Last night the Hungary team featured a guy from Barnsley and a couple of Hungarian league players. Some of our players might not be “up to it” but the same is true for many teams at this tournament - that’s international football for you. It doesn’t excuse our pitiful performances. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guinness Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Off topic The auld wummin that runs the Hearts was staying at the Buccluech on Saturday. She was seemingly very chatty with the Rangers fan's in their. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, guinness said: Off topic The auld wummin that runs the Hearts was staying at the Buccluech on Saturday. She was seemingly very chatty with the Rangers fan's in their. Chips and cheese for lunch for me today I think 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 Just now, guinness said: Off topic The auld wummin that runs the Hearts was staying at the Buccluech on Saturday. She was seemingly very chatty with the Rangers fan's in their. That's putting it mildly. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stressball Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 10 hours ago, Hoose Rice said: Everyone is moaning about the negative cautious football and how stubborn Clarke is. Why do you think West Ham fans wanted Moyes punted? Delusion, illusions of grandeur? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 15 minutes ago, Galajambo said: Oh right, so just because you don't like him, he shouldn't get the job, Jesus Christ! Let's look at this a bit, one guy has managed Everton, Man Utd, Sunderland, Real Sociedad, West Ham twice, and won a European trophy, the other has been sacked by Reading, sacked by West Brom, and managed one good season at Killie, there isn't even an argument here! Pretty much. He has a disdain for Scottish clubs outwith the two arses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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