GordonD Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 23 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: As for the safety aspect, I bet there’s loads of folk on here bungee jumped, parachuted, been on roller coasters etc just trusting the folk that run it without asking to see their safety certificates. If I were asked to sign a waiver, before I got on a roller coaster, which specifically pointed out that I might die, I would certainly ask to see their safety certificate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: As for the safety aspect, I bet there’s loads of folk on here bungee jumped, parachuted, been on roller coasters etc just trusting the folk that run it without asking to see their safety certificates. If you were paying £200k and it had done a few successful missions maybe you would trust it in your eagerness to go on the adventure.. who knows? Stockton Rush reminds me of those eccentric inventors on sci-fi movies who become so obsessed with their dream that they lose sight of the basic principles of physics, science etc. In this instance it only affects those on the submersible, but you look at psychos like Elon Musk with his passion for AI and see there should be strict regulation as it affects all of us. I was just thinking about the additional pressures that Stockton Rush may have been under that could have impaired his decision making as he seemed a nice guy (obviously just superficially) albeit with a few chips on his shoulders. I'd like to see Oceangate's accounts, as if he was under any kind of financial pressure that would cast things in a bad light because even if it's started out and portrayed as a passion project - if reputation, bankruptcy and mortgages start coming under threat it becomes more about bums on seats and increasing the tempo of missions. I also vaguely recall that there was maybe an element of an arms race in terms of the deep sea tourism which again could have led to questionable decision making and I think his family background also maybe there's an element of him wanting to make something of himself Those are maybe pressures that you don't see when agreeing to sign up for something like this, but could have played an important role - especially since this seemed to be a bit of a one man operation. Edited June 27, 2023 by 2426255 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 5 hours ago, GordonD said: If I were asked to sign a waiver, before I got on a roller coaster, which specifically pointed out that I might die, I would certainly ask to see their safety certificate. As an aside, my understanding of a waiver against personal injury or death, is that it’s not worth the paper it’s written on. The legal experts on here can correct me if I’m wrong. That might just be UK law, no idea if USA/ Canadian law is the same. Might even be hard to establish whose laws any action would be under with it being international waters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: As an aside, my understanding of a waiver against personal injury or death, is that it’s not worth the paper it’s written on. The legal experts on here can correct me if I’m wrong. That might just be UK law, no idea if USA/ Canadian law is the same. Might even be hard to establish whose laws any action would be under with it being international waters. The contract will state which territorys law is applicable. A waiver against personal injury or death depends on whether or not the injury was foreseeable and an expected risk during the activity. If you pay me to take you mountaineering and you slip and fall off a cliff the waiver is probably fine because these things happen. If you die because I don't maintain my ropes and one snaps then the waiver is meaningless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aim Here Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said: The contract will state which territorys law is applicable. A waiver against personal injury or death depends on whether or not the injury was foreseeable and an expected risk during the activity. If you pay me to take you mountaineering and you slip and fall off a cliff the waiver is probably fine because these things happen. If you die because I don't maintain my ropes and one snaps then the waiver is meaningless. So in this case, with a bunch of people actually forseeing that this thing was a deathtrap, the waiver would hold up? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Aim Here said: So in this case, with a bunch of people actually forseeing that this thing was a deathtrap, the waiver would hold up? I wouldn't have thought so. You can't waiver away your own negligence. Maybe if you were super specific and declared in the contract that the tail cone was prone to falling off and that the client still agreed to go and the tail cone falling off caused the implosion. A more general "this all looks a bit dodge" wouldn't do it. The skill and expertise of the client might be a factor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 I can see this ending in the courts. We're talking about billionaires, America's litigious culture and lawyers sniffing fat cheques. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: I can see this ending in the courts. We're talking about billionaires, America's litigious culture and lawyers sniffing fat cheques. But the owner/CEO was on board... or so they claim. I wonder if he was safe aboard the support vessel when the sub went MOOB (opposite of an explosion) and has been in hiding ever since? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Titanic tourist sub photos show wreckage being brought ashore - BBC News 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 12 hours ago, Newbornbairn said: I can see this ending in the courts. We're talking about billionaires, America's litigious culture and lawyers sniffing fat cheques. I can see the company filing for bankruptcy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lofarl Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 49 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said: Titanic tourist sub photos show wreckage being brought ashore - BBC News See that big red strap through where the viewport was mate? There's yer problem. The one designed to go only as deep as 1300m but we dove it to 4000m? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee-Bey Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 BBC reporting that they’ve recovered human remains from the site of the Titan wreckage. Genuinely surprised at this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkst Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, AyrshireTon said: BBC reporting that they’ve recovered human remains from the site of the Titan wreckage. Genuinely surprised at this. Compressed and cooked but there's bound to be some body parts left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19QOS19 Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, btb said: I can see the company filing for bankruptcy. They'll fold like a cheap sub. Edited June 28, 2023 by 19QOS19 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasy23 Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 https://youtu.be/c91MwPTCZ0o 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 56 minutes ago, throbber said: I’m pretty surprised by it as well - you would have thought the ocean would have washed all the splattered remains away. Unless it's trapped in between the compressed metal, like a toastie in a Breville. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 3 hours ago, throbber said: I’m pretty surprised by it as well - you would have thought the ocean would have washed all the splattered remains away. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted June 29, 2023 Share Posted June 29, 2023 Presumably even at that depth there'll be hungry little critters. Waste not, want not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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