Two seasons in

[Arthurlie1981]

19 minutes ago, Plantar fasciitis said:

Ye no doubt crowds are dwindling since the time I played, I loved going to Dunterlie as a player and loved the atmosphere, in fact it's one of my favourite grounds in the junior set up ( WOSFL)  and it was a real shame the last time I went with the fall in home fan numbers. I don't know the answer , I think it's a generation thing , kids just have so much more at their disposal and are glued to their phones and internet sites like tik tok in their rooms. I don't know how you encourage a new generation of fans to clubs these days 

I think part of it is changes in society and many clubs (including Arthurlie) failed to move with the times. Its not to late but clubs have to look at how they operate and interact with the community. The community isn't going to come to them they need to go to it.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Kennie said:

We can't find people to wear the blazers we already have and you want us to order more.

I know it's not easy. A problem scenario is some clubs are going to be left behind due to a lack of expertise in the committee rooms.

The WOS has brought more positives than negatives for me. 

It's profile is definitely seen as modern compared to the Junior days. Ideally at some point in the future the league could be generating revenue from sponsors and other sources like media that can be pumped back into the lge's. But to get to this utopia the whole lge setup needs to be seen as professional by outsiders.

Yes I am a dreamer.

Aim big to succeed.

[Arthurlie1981]

20 minutes ago, Kennie said:

How do you actively encourage clubs to allow kids in free?

Some clubs will see a benefit, some won't. How is it possible to change a club's opinion on it?

Have you tried to discuss it? How do you know that some clubs don't see a benefit? You have been in a position of power for pretty much the last 15 years along with many others, so can you answer me this? What encouragement or engagement with clubs has been made to improve the game at this level over that period of time? How have both the West Region and the WOSFL tried to bring new people on board? 

[Johnstonian]

38 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

It was a joke tweet by a former player turned fan. 

Thought as much. All the best for the new season.

You may well have a small Johnstone branch to add to your support at Dunterlie

[Arthurlie1981]

Just now, Johnstonian said:

Thought as much. All the best for the new season.

You may well have a small Johnstone branch to add to your support at Dunterlie

Always welcome at Dunterlie bud!!

[Kennie]

15 minutes ago, Arthurlie1981 said:

Have you tried to discuss it? How do you know that some clubs don't see a benefit? You have been in a position of power for pretty much the last 15 years along with many others, so can you answer me this? What encouragement or engagement with clubs has been made to improve the game at this level over that period of time? How have both the West Region and the WOSFL tried to bring new people on board? 

I'm not having a go at anyone on this. All of the points you made have been discussed and we continue to try and improve our level of football for the benefit of all clubs. We have a couple of initiatives on the go and some more in the pipeline.

Today's administration of the WoSFL would be unrecognisable compared to the old West Region and due to certain circumstances we are able to spend more time discussing how to improve things. For instance, we now have Divisional reps who's remit is to engage with the clubs in their Division to see what can be done to help them. But the age old problem of volunteers stepping forward continues. That is the same at club level as it is at WoSFL Board level. 

[parsforlife]

47 minutes ago, Plantar fasciitis said:

Ye no doubt crowds are dwindling since the time I played, I loved going to Dunterlie as a player and loved the atmosphere, in fact it's one of my favourite grounds in the junior set up ( WOSFL)  and it was a real shame the last time I went with the fall in home fan numbers. I don't know the answer , I think it's a generation thing , kids just have so much more at their disposal and are glued to their phones and internet sites like tik tok in their rooms. I don't know how you encourage a new generation of fans to clubs these days 

My local team has a fantastic group of kids who are there supporting the team weekly.  I think the key success is they are given free season tickets as part of the youth teams and also a space which is there’s to enjoy.  I think that works as having a ticket in hand gives a bit more ownership than being allowed in free,  i think that generates more of a desire to turn up and use their ticket rather than going for a freebie which they might not have known about.   I also think by having their own section it gives them freedom to be kids without worrying about mum/dad/random punter being the general stereotype boring grown up stopping their fun.

These things rely on momentum, 1 kid turning up gets bored, 2-3 might enjoy it sometimes but if one isn’t going they miss the comradery if one doesn’t go,  you start to get 5-10 and there’s a great chance to turn that into 50+ there’s not many clubs below league 1 that if you achieve that it doesn’t represent a huge proportion of the support.

[Plantar fasciitis]

I always thought getting schools on board , clubs giving in kids free vouchers with a paying adult would encourage kids to take them home and beg their parents to take them, even putting on it a  free juice and a small chocolate bar or something! 

[Plantar fasciitis]

7 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

My local team has a fantastic group of kids who are there supporting the team weekly.  I think the key success is they are given free season tickets as part of the youth teams and also a space which is there’s to enjoy.  I think that works as having a ticket in hand gives a bit more ownership than being allowed in free,  i think that generates more of a desire to turn up and use their ticket rather than going for a freebie which they might not have known about.   I also think by having their own section it gives them freedom to be kids without worrying about mum/dad/random punter being the general stereotype boring grown up stopping their fun.

These things rely on momentum, 1 kid turning up gets bored, 2-3 might enjoy it sometimes but if one isn’t going they miss the comradery if one doesn’t go,  you start to get 5-10 and there’s a great chance to turn that into 50+ there’s not many clubs below league 1 that if you achieve that it doesn’t represent a huge proportion of the support.

Sounds brilliant 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Plantar fasciitis said:

I always thought getting schools on board , clubs giving in kids free vouchers with a paying adult would encourage kids to take them home and beg their parents to take them, even putting on it a  free juice and a small chocolate bar or something! 

I was wanting to add that a number of clubs have the ultras section which appears to be mostly kids.

Have seen regular photos on clubs tweets. A number of clubs also involve their younger teams in matchday activities. 

Clubs are more proactive than appears to the normal supporter.

[Hillonearth]

15 hours ago, Kennie said:

How do you actively encourage clubs to allow kids in free?

Some clubs will see a benefit, some won't. How is it possible to change a club's opinion on it?

I've said on here before that we perhaps look at things the wrong way by obsessing over getting kids to games, and that it's less them we should be concentrating on and more the Sky Sports generation who are 25-40 right now and who seem to by and large to have been lost to our level. For me, it's due to a combination of them finding other things to do on Saturday afternoon and the inertia of many clubs who didn't move with the times and thought sticking sheets of A4 in corners of a few local old man's pubs was still the way to go about promoting forthcoming games.

Attract that lot and the kids will follow naturally anyway...they're the cohort who are their dads after all.

 

[PossilYM]

On 15/07/2023 at 08:59, Hillonearth said:

I've said on here before that we perhaps look at things the wrong way by obsessing over getting kids to games, and that it's less them we should be concentrating on and more the Sky Sports generation who are 25-40 right now and who seem to by and large to have been lost to our level. For me, it's due to a combination of them finding other things to do on Saturday afternoon and the inertia of many clubs who didn't move with the times and thought sticking sheets of A4 in corners of a few local old man's pubs was still the way to go about promoting forthcoming games.

Attract that lot and the kids will follow naturally anyway...they're the cohort who are their dads after all.

 

Correct to a degree, H.

Although how much could those successful top end Ayrshire villages add to attendance figures.

If 500 turn up at Talbot that's about one in seven of the local population.

If the same percentage tried to turn up at say Maryhill you'd need to close the gates an hour before kick-off and call the cops.

Anyway my point being, the best way to attract anybody to a football match in the 21st Century is success.

Imagine Maryhill beating Aberdeen in a Scottish Cup tie. 

Downside of this is the pyramid coming too late for most of the clubs in greater Glasgow 

[Hillonearth]

1 hour ago, PossilYM said:

Correct to a degree, H.

Although how much could those successful top end Ayrshire villages add to attendance figures.

If 500 turn up at Talbot that's about one in seven of the local population.

If the same percentage tried to turn up at say Maryhill you'd need to close the gates an hour before kick-off and call the cops.

Anyway my point being, the best way to attract anybody to a football match in the 21st Century is success.

Imagine Maryhill beating Aberdeen in a Scottish Cup tie. 

Downside of this is the pyramid coming too late for most of the clubs in greater Glasgow 

I reckon every club's got it's own set of challenges, and while on the face of it clubs like mine have got far bigger populations in their catchment area - we've potentially got from the edge of the city centre right up to Bearsden and Milngavie as ours - we also face far more competition for local attention than someone like Talbot, as as well as the inevitable OF we've got to compete with another fairly big club in the shape of Thistle down the road. Obviously Talbot have Killie fairly close by, but they're something like fifteen times as far away from Beechwood than Firhill is to us.

Add in the wealth of distractions the West End has to offer twenty minutes walk from Lochburn and we're never going to be able to attract anything like a similar proportion of people...it's not a dig in any way, but Auchinleck Main Street on a Saturday isn't exactly Byres or Great Western Roads!

And you're right, all the Glasgow clubs have varying demographic issues in terms of attracting support with the exception of Pollok who have retained a sizeable although ageing fanbase; Petershill for example are in a post-industrial area where most of the original population has long since moved away to be replaced by new Scots who are probably far more concerned with the inherent problems of living in a new country than finding a team to support.

For us, perhaps the biggest demographic challenge is the transience of the population living around the club...a lot of people tend to work or study in the wider West End for a few years, don't put down genuine roots there and move on. It's a problem some of the Ayrshire teams don't have - while there are obviously exceptions, families are more likely to have lived there for generations and are deeped-rooted in the area than is possible in most of Glasgow.

 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I reckon every club's got it's own set of challenges, and while on the face of it clubs like mine have got far bigger populations in their catchment area - we've potentially got from the edge of the city centre right up to Bearsden and Milngavie as ours - we also face far more competition for local attention than someone like Talbot, as as well as the inevitable OF we've got to compete with another fairly big club in the shape of Thistle down the road. Obviously Talbot have Killie fairly close by, but they're something like fifteen times as far away from Beechwood than Firhill is to us.

Add in the wealth of distractions the West End has to offer twenty minutes walk from Lochburn and we're never going to be able to attract anything like a similar proportion of people...it's not a dig in any way, but Auchinleck Main Street on a Saturday isn't exactly Byres or Great Western Roads!

And you're right, all the Glasgow clubs have varying demographic issues in terms of attracting support with the exception of Pollok who have retained a sizeable although ageing fanbase; Petershill for example are in a post-industrial area where most of the original population has long since moved away to be replaced by new Scots who are probably far more concerned with the inherent problems of living in a new country than finding a team to support.

For us, perhaps the biggest demographic challenge is the transience of the population living around the club...a lot of people tend to work or study in the wider West End for a few years, don't put down genuine roots there and move on. It's a problem some of the Ayrshire teams don't have - while there are obviously exceptions, families are more likely to have lived there for generations and are deeped-rooted in the area than is possible in most of Glasgow.

 

Just throwing another thought into the pot 're footfall.

As I may have mentioned once or twice; I've moved down to Kirkcudbrightshire from Central Belt.

Within say 30 min radius from the house I have 8 South and West clubs to visit. Last week from Sat to Sat I was at Castle Douglas, Newton Stewart & Kirkcudbright.

I follow none of the above clubs. I now follow football.

There must be others like me around the country who just enjoy going to live games. Target this group in your area. Shouldn't cost an arm and a leg. We all can access Twitter, Facebook easily. Print off a few posters to put out in local chippy, pub, cafe, supermarket, newsagent, wherever. Sometimes family come along, the odd neighbour, visitors (yes I do have friends). 

It's not much but my point is; not everybody that comes through the turnstiles has to be a fan off your club for it to be a benefit to your club.

Edit: Had a rethink change that to friend singular.

p.s. still waiting on @PossilYM with his threatened sojourn to the Stewartry.

[Lokloyal]

26 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I reckon every club's got it's own set of challenges, and while on the face of it clubs like mine have got far bigger populations in their catchment area - we've potentially got from the edge of the city centre right up to Bearsden and Milngavie as ours - we also face far more competition for local attention than someone like Talbot, as as well as the inevitable OF we've got to compete with another fairly big club in the shape of Thistle down the road. Obviously Talbot have Killie fairly close by, but they're something like fifteen times as far away from Beechwood than Firhill is to us.

Add in the wealth of distractions the West End has to offer twenty minutes walk from Lochburn and we're never going to be able to attract anything like a similar proportion of people...it's not a dig in any way, but Auchinleck Main Street on a Saturday isn't exactly Byres or Great Western Roads!

And you're right, all the Glasgow clubs have varying demographic issues in terms of attracting support with the exception of Pollok who have retained a sizeable although ageing fanbase; Petershill for example are in a post-industrial area where most of the original population has long since moved away to be replaced by new Scots who are probably far more concerned with the inherent problems of living in a new country than finding a team to support.

For us, perhaps the biggest demographic challenge is the transience of the population living around the club...a lot of people tend to work or study in the wider West End for a few years, don't put down genuine roots there and move on. It's a problem some of the Ayrshire teams don't have - while there are obviously exceptions, families are more likely to have lived there for generations and are deeped-rooted in the area than is possible in most of Glasgow.

 

It’s the age old problem of all City clubs where you are just a small sporting organisation in a very big pond competing with all sorts of distractions and inevitably the OF.The sense of community which the Ayrshire villages have doesn’t exist and that in itself is a major factor.

[Hillonearth]

6 minutes ago, Lokloyal said:

It’s the age old problem of all City clubs where you are just a small sporting organisation in a very big pond competing with all sorts of distractions and inevitably the OF.The sense of community which the Ayrshire villages have doesn’t exist and that in itself is a major factor.

I actually reckon that's probably why Pollok uniquely have held on to a big fanbase among the city clubs...there's that big belt of what the sociologists would call "established middle class" housing from Newlands all the way down to say Clarkston and Giffnock where a lot of their fans seem to come from....they're that bit more settled and if they move around it's to a larger or smaller house in the same general area. Once you live there, you're probably there for keeps and will likely investigate the local club at some point if you're at all interested in football.

[Dev]

What you all seem to be saying is that clubs really need to buy into their local catchment areas. Link with community groups outside football etc. Many will already do that and they don't need to be clubs in established towns and villages, or communities such as:

" that big belt of what the sociologists would call "established middle class" housing from Newlands all the way down to say Clarkston and Giffnock where a lot of their fans seem to come from " which Hillonearth rightly refers to. 

It's one reason why Community clubs are cropping up and now reaching the Pyramid leagues. Those clubs are buying into the future loyalty of those ex kids /youth players after they reach the middle-age stage. It's a cracking good example for older, more traditional, clubs to try to follow.

[Lokloyal]

38 minutes ago, Hillonearth said:

I actually reckon that's probably why Pollok uniquely have held on to a big fanbase among the city clubs...there's that big belt of what the sociologists would call "established middle class" housing from Newlands all the way down to say Clarkston and Giffnock where a lot of their fans seem to come from....they're that bit more settled and if they move around it's to a larger or smaller house in the same general area. Once you live there, you're probably there for keeps and will likely investigate the local club at some point if you're at all interested in football.

It’s a good point-there are a lot of old established south side areas around us where people and families have lived for a long time and within which they tend to move but not too far.I would include in that Shawlands,Muirend,Langside,Cathcart and Kings Park.

Pollokshaws to a degree although it has been diluted a bit by demographic changes and Strathbungo/Govanhill definitely no longer have a sense of the south side as it was.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Hillonearth said:

post-industrial area where most of the original population has long since moved away to be replaced by new Scots who are probably far more concerned with the inherent problems of living in a new country than finding a team to support.

Wanted to expand on this part of your post.

First off big kudos for using the term 'new Scots', tells us a lot about you as a person and it's positives.

A number of the new Scots come from footballing countries and you never know they might have experience in administering a club in their birth country. 

Clubs can reach out to them and engage with them; it's almost a win-win for both. New blood at clubs and a massive way of the new Scots becoming an integral part of their new community.

#we are all Scots.

Edited July 17, 2023 by HorseyGhirl

[glensmad]

18 minutes ago, Lokloyal said:

It’s a good point-there are a lot of old established south side areas around us where people and families have lived for a long time and within which they tend to move but not too far.I would include in that Shawlands,Muirend,Langside,Cathcart and Kings Park.

Pollokshaws to a degree although it has been diluted a bit by demographic changes and Strathbungo/Govanhill definitely no longer have a sense of the south side as it was.

Oi you, King's Park is on Glencairn's doorstep. Just because you drive past Glencairn's stadium to go and support your glory-hunting big team doesn't mean you should encourage others to do the same.