Queens v Alloa

[Otis Blue]

First time I've seen the new squad.  Thoughts ...

Apologies first - I'm the jinx, we just never beat Alloa when I'm at the game (same as Hamilton) - in fact I'm sure I've seen Queens beat the Govan mob more times than I've seen us beat Alloa!

LC group stage games are no yardstick for the real thing - same every season.

That first half central defence - dearie me.  Bartley was a defender himself (or defensive mid) so its the first part of the team I thought he'd sort out.  After his first couple of LC cameos I fully expected to see Ambrose start and he certainly steadied the ship second half and as others have said young McClelland looked more comfortable beside him.  Credit to Bartley though for three half-time subs and a further two in the second half - we've had managers before (Johnston?) who were loath to change things (wasn't exactly a tough call though).

The first penalty, I wondered at the time if it could have been a red card as Todd was straight through on the keeper - no one else has mentioned this though so maybe not.  The second penalty was of course ridiculous, nothing the defender could do - why can't the authorities remove daft rules?

Pass marks to: Botterill (quick, athletic keeper although kicking a bit iffy), Church (looks a player), Ambrose (experience shows at this level), McGuffie (worked hard, set up a goal, harsh to have been hooked), McClelland (took plenty of abuse from the new stand but I thought he did OK for a young lad), Reilly (worked his socks off against big defenders, took his pens well), Lewis Gibson (he's the real deal, some player in there - should be given a 5 year contract to sign as he'll be off soon).

Below par: Cochrane (not at his best but still tries hard - I like Harry but there's always a foul/yellow waiting to happen), Mimnaugh (expected a lot but hardly saw him first half, did some OK things second half but not enough), Logan (tried hard in a false position but gave the ball away in dangerous areas, but the lad kept trying, didn't hide and was always willing), McKechnie (looked a threat first half but fell away letting frustration get the better of him), Connelly (neat but frustrating player, not enough end product for me).

Not sure - Houston (seemed to do OK first half, surprised he was hooked, but someone had to be), Walker (looked quick but didn't see any end product - was on the other side of the pitch from me tbf).

Shockers - McKay (what to say? never even threatened Sammon for his goal), Todd (that pass was dreadful, he has games where he offers zip, and yesterday was another).

Next game (Embra) is really important now, Bartley has to get a reaction or we risk a repeat of last season's woeful start.  Interesting who the two newcomers will be this week.  Wilson would obviously make a difference but three games and he'll be injured again.  Ambrose has to start, simple.

[19QOS19]

1 minute ago, HighlandQueen said:

Marv said it at the q and a at the pre match sponsors gig in hospitality. He also said there would be some casualties that would move in from the current squad. Obviously not time and place to ask him more. 

Cheers. Totally missed that on the first read-through somehow. Good to hear. I expect(/hope) Irving may well be on his way out on loan. Given we were chasing a goal I thought it was pretty telling we never brought a 'striker' on. 

I wonder if they others to leave are just the younger lads going on loan. 

[19QOS19]

3 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

The first penalty, I wondered at the time if it could have been a red card as Todd was straight through on the keeper - no one else has mentioned this though so maybe not.  The second penalty was of course ridiculous, nothing the defender could do - why can't the authorities remove daft rules?

I think because the guy made a legitimate attempt to play the ball is what saved him. I think the Alloa goalkeeper could have been in bother if McKechnie had gone down for the goal. 

I think Alloa could be in for a good time if they go with that GK. Thought he was pretty entertaining at times yesterday. Certainly not scared to come out and attempt to get the ball even if it's not his to win

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, 19QOS19 said:

I think because the guy made a legitimate attempt to play the ball is what saved him. I think the Alloa goalkeeper could have been in bother if McKechnie had gone down for the goal. 

I think Alloa could be in for a good time if they go with that GK. Thought he was pretty entertaining at times yesterday. Certainly not scared to come out and attempt to get the ball even if it's not his to win

Cheers, never realised that was the rule, thought it was a straight last man situation.

Aye, their goalie was entertaining, but I think I read that the young lad who came on second half had a bit of a mare during the LC group games where they shipped a good few goals - although he seemed steady enough when he came on second half, but then we didn't exactly pepper him with efforts.

Hands up ... I need to stop going to games, I'm bloody jinxed ...

[bod]

Fwiw and before anyone goes off on one these are my thoughts and ratings on yesterdays fiasco, feel free to post your own.

Botterill,  6 maybe not as commanding as last week and looked uneasy with                      the ball at his feet.

Houston, 5 felt sorry for that lad that he was the fullback to be removed.                               Didn't really do anything wrong.

Logan, 3 had an absolutely mare of a first half, slightly better second playing                  his natural position.

McKay, 4 didn't cover himself in glory, when tasked with doing basic Ch                             tasks.

McClelland, 5 poor first half but stepped up a bit in the second with the                              guidance of Ambrose.

McGuffie, 5 has glimpses where he looks good but doesn't have a turn of                            pace to leave his man. Often to slow moving the ball forward.

Todd, 4 below par performance from the captain with loads of loose                               passes one of which was awful.

Mimnaugh, 7 easily our best midfielder yesterday, just needed some                                     assistance. Quickly becoming one of the first names on the                                 team sheet.

Cochrane, 5 very much an underpar  performance where he lost                                            possession  a number of times.

McKechnie, 6 took his goal well but was another who often slowed things                              down instead of moving the ball a bit quicker.

Reilly, 7 battled gamely and put in another good shift, took his pens well.

Subs,

Church, 6 looked good considering it was his first outing. Brought natural                        balance to the back line. Look forward to him getting more                                  game time.

Ambrose, 6 brought much needed calmness and stability to the whole back                    line. Only Marvin knows why he didn't start. 

Connelly, 5 not quite up to his normal standards, you're never quite sure                           what you're going to get from him.

Walker 5, brought more directness when introduced.

Gibson 6, brought instant energy to the team and at least he was trying to                        get crossed into the box.

 

Bartley 2, game was lost in the first half with his strange team selection. Last                    week we best a team from the league above and looked                                     reasonably comfortable for good periods. Only he will know why he                   changed shape and personnel. Ambrose, Gibson and Church must                    surely start next week.

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by bod
Word change

[Otis Blue]

In his post match interview I think Bartley said that (as he hadn't done a full pre-season) he didn't think that Ambrose had a full 90 minutes in him yet - hence why he started from the bench.  I suspect that he'll start him up at Embra next week though!

[bod]

Just now, Otis Blue said:

In his post match interview I think Bartley said that (as he hadn't done a full pre-season) he didn't think that Ambrose had a full 90 minutes in him yet - hence why he started from the bench.  I suspect that he'll start him up at Embra next week though!

Lead to believe he played 3 pre season games for Cove. Would have thought, like last week get the game won and then take Efe off after 65- 70mins.

[queenslad]

Todd pass wasn't the greatest but should McKay not have been stronger and first to reach it. He hesitated and allowed Alloa player to easily beat him and score

[Fae_the_'briggs]

15 minutes ago, queenslad said:

Todd pass wasn't the greatest but should McKay not have been stronger and first to reach it. He hesitated and allowed Alloa player to easily beat him and score

My thoughts at the time from behind the goal, a poor pass by Todd but McKay was rooted to the spot and made no attempt to intercept. I haven't seen replays so maybe being a bit harsh on him. 

[19QOS19]

1 hour ago, queenslad said:

Todd pass wasn't the greatest but should McKay not have been stronger and first to reach it. He hesitated and allowed Alloa player to easily beat him and score

 

1 hour ago, Fae_the_'briggs said:

My thoughts at the time from behind the goal, a poor pass by Todd but McKay was rooted to the spot and made no attempt to intercept. I haven't seen replays so maybe being a bit harsh on him. 

It's 100% Todd's fault for me. As I said yesterday, I was practically in line with Todd and it was an horrendous pass. The ball is moving away from McKay and he's backtracking as well. By the time he's managed to change direction the Alloa boy is on it, I don't think he hesitated, it was literally the pause before changing direction. Also worth noting Todd played the ball then shouted on McKay. Bad enough playing such a suicidal ball but at least let the guy know before you play it. 

Edited August 6, 2023 by 19QOS19

[printer]

11 hours ago, queenslad said:

Todd pass wasn't the greatest but should McKay not have been stronger and first to reach it. He hesitated and allowed Alloa player to easily beat him and score

Rodden is very quick. A slower player and McKay might have had time to snuff out the danger.

Big credit to Rodden for the way he pounced on the ball, drove forward and finished IMO, especially given he hadn't scored since last year and was under pressure to get among the goals again.

[Otis Blue]

11 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

... It's 100% Todd's fault for me. As I said yesterday, I was practically in line with Todd and it was an horrendous pass ...

 

1 hour ago, printer said:

Rodden is very quick. A slower player and McKay might have had time to snuff out the danger ...

McKay clearly wasn't at the races on Saturday, but that was a ridiculous pass from Todd, it was way in front of McKay in the most exposed area of the pitch for us.  Playing out from the back is nice to see, but it needs: (i) players moving to make themselves available to the guy on the ball, and (ii) good decision making by the passer - if the pass isn't on, or the receiver is already under pressure just get the ball to a safe area.

In the second half I remember a high ball being played back (can't remember from who) to young McClelland in the back line who was already being pressed - he did well to head it clear but it was a needless risk that could have been avoided.

A few years back I watched Germany at Hampden (just after they had won the WC in Brasil) and being there in person the thing that struck me most was how every player could take the ball under pressure without yielding possession (first touch excellent and all that).  Now I'm not expecting that level of technical ability at Scottish tier 3 level, but if we're going to attempt to play out from the back we've got to at least have good decision making - there's a time and a place etc etc

[HighlandQueen]

26 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

 

McKay clearly wasn't at the races on Saturday, but that was a ridiculous pass from Todd, it was way in front of McKay in the most exposed area of the pitch for us.  Playing out from the back is nice to see, but it needs: (i) players moving to make themselves available to the guy on the ball, and (ii) good decision making by the passer - if the pass isn't on, or the receiver is already under pressure just get the ball to a safe area.

In the second half I remember a high ball being played back (can't remember from who) to young McClelland in the back line who was already being pressed - he did well to head it clear but it was a needless risk that could have been avoided.

A few years back I watched Germany at Hampden (just after they had won the WC in Brasil) and being there in person the thing that struck me most was how every player could take the ball under pressure without yielding possession (first touch excellent and all that).  Now I'm not expecting that level of technical ability at Scottish tier 3 level, but if we're going to attempt to play out from the back we've got to at least have good decision making - there's a time and a place etc etc

Spot on

[bod]

29 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

 

McKay clearly wasn't at the races on Saturday, but that was a ridiculous pass from Todd, it was way in front of McKay in the most exposed area of the pitch for us.  Playing out from the back is nice to see, but it needs: (i) players moving to make themselves available to the guy on the ball, and (ii) good decision making by the passer - if the pass isn't on, or the receiver is already under pressure just get the ball to a safe area.

In the second half I remember a high ball being played back (can't remember from who) to young McClelland in the back line who was already being pressed - he did well to head it clear but it was a needless risk that could have been avoided.

A few years back I watched Germany at Hampden (just after they had won the WC in Brasil) and being there in person the thing that struck me most was how every player could take the ball under pressure without yielding possession (first touch excellent and all that).  Now I'm not expecting that level of technical ability at Scottish tier 3 level, but if we're going to attempt to play out from the back we've got to at least have good decision making - there's a time and a place etc etc

I would add that the pass should also be of a decent weight, not like some we witnessed on Saturday!

[LeodhasXD]

18 hours ago, Otis Blue said:

The first penalty, I wondered at the time if it could have been a red card as Todd was straight through on the keeper - no one else has mentioned this though so maybe not.  The second penalty was of course ridiculous, nothing the defender could do - why can't the authorities remove daft rules?

18 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

I think because the guy made a legitimate attempt to play the ball is what saved him. I think the Alloa goalkeeper could have been in bother if McKechnie had gone down for the goal. 

I think Alloa could be in for a good time if they go with that GK. Thought he was pretty entertaining at times yesterday. Certainly not scared to come out and attempt to get the ball even if it's not his to win

Neither was remotely at risk of a red with one caveat....

Goalkeepers can't be red carded for DOGSO unless they don't make a serious attempt for the ball. In any other circumstance they are yellow carded to not give the triple punishment of red card, substitution and penalty. See last year's playoff game against Hamilton for a stone wall red card for a goalkeeper.

The first penalty wasn't a DOGSO offence, violent conduct or serious foul play. As much as it was a tidy through ball - Ogayi was off his line and favourite for picking it up ahead of the Todd.

The caveat being the second penalty is just a joke on so many levels. Decisions like that will get football cancelled so I wouldn't be surprised at anything the ref gives.

Ogayi is entertaining. Only seem him in a few games but so far his kicks are long range - he's got quick reflexes, and is a good jumper and he's quick off his line. Unorthodox yes but box office.

[Homer Thompson]

5 minutes ago, LeodhasXD said:

Neither was remotely at risk of a red with one caveat....

Goalkeepers can't be red carded for DOGSO unless they don't make a serious attempt for the ball. In any other circumstance they are yellow carded to not give the triple punishment of red card, substitution and penalty. See last year's playoff game against Hamilton for a stone wall red card for a goalkeeper.

The first penalty wasn't a DOGSO offence, violent conduct or serious foul play. As much as it was a tidy through ball - Ogayi was off his line and favourite for picking it up ahead of the Todd.

The caveat being the second penalty is just a joke on so many levels. Decisions like that will get football cancelled so I wouldn't be surprised at anything the ref gives.

Ogayi is entertaining. Only seem him in a few games but so far his kicks are long range - he's got quick reflexes, and is a good jumper and he's quick off his line. Unorthodox yes but box office.

I would say the first pen probably was a goal scoring opportunity but it was yellow because the double jeopardy rule applies to everyone. 

[printer]

1 hour ago, Otis Blue said:

 

McKay clearly wasn't at the races on Saturday, but that was a ridiculous pass from Todd, it was way in front of McKay in the most exposed area of the pitch for us.  Playing out from the back is nice to see, but it needs: (i) players moving to make themselves available to the guy on the ball, and (ii) good decision making by the passer - if the pass isn't on, or the receiver is already under pressure just get the ball to a safe area.

In the second half I remember a high ball being played back (can't remember from who) to young McClelland in the back line who was already being pressed - he did well to head it clear but it was a needless risk that could have been avoided.

A few years back I watched Germany at Hampden (just after they had won the WC in Brasil) and being there in person the thing that struck me most was how every player could take the ball under pressure without yielding possession (first touch excellent and all that).  Now I'm not expecting that level of technical ability at Scottish tier 3 level, but if we're going to attempt to play out from the back we've got to at least have good decision making - there's a time and a place etc etc

I agree it was Todd's fault.

[Fae_the_'briggs]

1 hour ago, bod said:

I would add that the pass should also be of a decent weight, not like some we witnessed on Saturday!

Noticed on a few occasions on  Saturday that Alloa players playing the ball over our defence for wide men to run on to managed to shape it or put spin on it to take the bounce out on landing. Don't know if its something they work on or are just good at it. We constantly overhit passes for front men to run on to. 

[Otis Blue]

1 hour ago, LeodhasXD said:

... The first penalty wasn't a DOGSO offence, violent conduct or serious foul play. As much as it was a tidy through ball - Ogayi was off his line and favourite for picking it up ahead of the Todd.

The caveat being the second penalty is just a joke on so many levels. Decisions like that will get football cancelled so I wouldn't be surprised at anything the ref gives.

I'm an old git now so my eyes do deceive me a bit at the games (and I'm far too lazy to read the detail of the rule book - happy for you guys out there to correct me), but looking at the video Todd is just about to pull the trigger when Virtanen (?) takes him out and the keeper is nowhere near favourite to get there.  If that's not a DOGSO (shooting opportunity in the middle of the box when through on the keeper) then I don't know what is.  I'm unclear about the double jeopardy reference there - maybe you can explain it to me.  A red might have affected the outcome, who knows - possibly not as we were just so utterly pish in defence and we got what we deserved - zip.

I have already agreed that our second penalty is a complete joke - the defender did his best to keep his hands down but at that range what else could he do?  I'm sure the ref did what the rule book tells him to do, but still a daft rule, has to go.  Needs to be a positive, intentional movement of the hand to the ball.

[Kevchenko]

25 minutes ago, Otis Blue said:

I'm unclear about the double jeopardy reference there - maybe you can explain it to me.

Rules were changed last year (or year before) - if it’s DOGSO in the box then a penalty and yellow card should be awarded IF the player has made a genuine attempt at the ball. 
 

Basically if it looks like you’ve tried to make a genuine tackle it should be yellow but if you rugby tackle the guy then it should still be red. Unfortunately, that bit goes down to referees interpretation of the challenge although he was spot on with Virtanen’s one.