Artificial pitch vote

[Molotov]

3 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

are you forgetting a certain vote back in 2012?

Did Kilmarnock not abstain? 

Aberdeen through that stupid greedy cnut Milne then did the dirty on every other team by not doing away with the 10-2 voting structure and siding with Celtic. 

[LiviLion]

25 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I love posts like this. They base themselves on the hope that no one else will be sad enough to waste their precious time checking your figures. I am most definitely in that category.

Out of curiosity (and the aforementioned pure bone idleness), could you give me the details of the 2-3-0 season? I’m very impressed by that as I too thought we were permashite on plastic. 
 

ETA I gave you a greenie for your efforts

Funnily enough as I was closing my tabs I noticed I'd fucked the last two seasons overall form (used your home one instead - you were actually better away in those seasons than what I'd had), but it didn't change the plastic record.

For the 2-3-0 in 2019/20:

Kilmarnock 1-1 St Mirren
Kilmarnock 3-3 St Mirren
Livingston 0-1 St Mirren
Hamilton 1-1 St Mirren
Hamilton 0-1 St Mirren
--
St Mirren 0-1 Kilmarnock
St Mirren 2-0 Kilmarnock
St Mirren 1-0 Livingston
St Mirren 1-1 Livingston
St Mirren 1-1 Hamilton
St Mirren 1-2 Hamilton

There were also these cup games in that season that weren't included in my above post:

Hamilton 0-3 St Mirren
Kilmarnock 3-3 St Mirren
Livingston 1-0 St Mirren

Edited May 30 by LiviLion

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

3 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

Funnily enough as I was closing my tabs I noticed I'd fucked the last two seasons overall form (used your home one instead - you were actually better away in those seasons than what I'd had), but it didn't change the plastic record.

For the 2-3-0 in 2019/20:

Kilmarnock 1-1 St Mirren
Kilmarnock 3-3 St Mirren
Livingston 0-1 St Mirren
Hamilton 1-1 St Mirren
Hamilton 0-1 St Mirren
--
St Mirren 0-1 Kilmarnock
St Mirren 2-0 Kilmarnock
St Mirren 1-0 Livingston
St Mirren 1-1 Livingston
St Mirren 1-1 Hamilton
St Mirren 1-2 Hamilton

There were also these cup games in that season that weren't included in my above post:

Hamilton 0-3 St Mirren
Kilmarnock 3-3 St Mirren
Livingston 1-0 St Mirren

I’ve changed my mind. We’re fuckin magic on plastic

[Molotov]

23 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Fair to say we are extremely angry, and frankly cannot see any logic to this at all. None.

But that anger should not get personal imho towards Div?
Our supporters group who own 51% of the club were asked a simple question. 
We prefer watching football on its historical roots - which is a grass pitch.

At some stage in the future we may need to install a hybrid or full artificial pitch to generate additional revenue from utilising the pitch within the community more often than it is now.

Just because the supporters group voted in favour doesn’t necessarily mean our part elected Board of directors won’t vote the way in favour of allowing artificial pitches. 

Who knows what will happen.

Perhaps some Falkirk fans on this forum owe Div an apology. Some of the abuse was unnecessary.

I know it won’t bother him as he spends the massive profits he makes from this site on his trips to Germany with Scotland and his European adventures with St Mirren.  

 

 

Edited May 30 by Molotov

[Ranaldo Bairn]

I think it's a tad unlikely your BOD will go against a 93% majority, let's be serious.

7 minutes ago, Molotov said:

But that anger should not get personal imho towards Div?
Our supporters group who own 51% of the club were asked a simple question. 
We prefer watching football on its historical roots - which is a grass pitch.

At some stage in the future we may need to install a hybrid or full artificial pitch to generate additional revenue from utilising the pitch within the community more often than it is now.

Just because the supporters group voted in favour doesn’t necessarily mean our part elected Board of directors won’t vote the way in favour of allowing artificial pitches. 

Who knows what will happen.

Perhaps some Falkirk fans on this forum owe Div an apology. Some of the abuse was unnecessary.

I know it won’t both him as he spends the massive profits he makes from this site on his trips to Germany with Scotland and his European adventures with St Mirren.  

 

 

Div got pelters (and yes, some was too much) because he'd spent the entire season rightly praising Rovers and the many superb games played on their pitch this season, and then mysteriously after this vote changed his tune to saying that games on artificial are not entertaining. Transparently baloney.

[Coventry Saint]

26 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Did Kilmarnock not abstain? 

Aberdeen through that stupid greedy cnut Milne then did the dirty on every other team by not doing away with the 10-2 voting structure and siding with Celtic. 

Point of order: it was the 11-1 voting structure they failed to get rid of, the thick c***s. The 10-2 would be preferable as it would allow a vote through with 10 votes ie everyone bar the Old Firm.

It's paid off for them, tbf. Aberdeen have unassailably become Scotland's second force. Astute move on their part.

[Molotov]

2 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I think it's a tad unlikely your BOD will go against a 93% majority, let's be serious.

Div got pelters (and yes, some was too much) because he'd spent the entire season rightly praising Rovers and the many superb games played on their pitch this season, and then mysteriously after this vote changed his tune to saying that games on artificial are not entertaining. Transparently baloney.

@Div is an extremely positive individual when it comes to “talking up” Scottish football. He watches so much football and takes a keen interest in all professional leagues with his weekly summaries. Arguably he does more to promote all levels of our game with far better insight than many media outlets.

However if his experience is similar to mine I fcuking hate watching my team St Mirren play any side on an artificial pitch. Fcuking despise them. 

Sorry nothing personal.

I totally understand the financial benefits of artificial pitches for the community and most importantly your club. But many of us older fans hate the surfaces with a passion. At some stage I expect St Mirren will end up hybrid or full artificial. 

Our supporters organisation demographics are based around the Still Game age group. 

Think this was Div and his mates around the pub last week.

[Div]

41 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I think it's a tad unlikely your BOD will go against a 93% majority, let's be serious.

Div got pelters (and yes, some was too much) because he'd spent the entire season rightly praising Rovers and the many superb games played on their pitch this season, and then mysteriously after this vote changed his tune to saying that games on artificial are not entertaining. Transparently baloney.

I spent a lot of the season praising Raith Rovers, and rightly so, but I do not at any point remember prasing their pitch.

Can you show me some tweets where I did that?

I don't think I watched Rovers more than a couple of times on the telly at home to be perfectly honest.

I thought the Airdrie pitch looked decent the other week when I watched them play Thistle and I commented on that.

I've said all along that I completely understand why artificial pitches are a sensible move in the lower leagues.

In the top flight of our professional game though I want all 12 teams to be playing on the same surface, a good quality grass pitch, with all clubs held to having a pitch of a suitable standard and maintaining it to that standard.

Why anyone would want any different in our top flight is absolutely beyond me.

[Arch Stanton]

17 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said:

If it was an innocent error why were there hslf and half St Mirren/Celtic scarves for sale the whole time it was open?

P-A-U-L-I

Funny way to spell Mirren.

[Scooby_Doo]

19 minutes ago, Div said:

In the top flight of our professional game though I want all 12 teams to be playing on the same surface, a good quality grass pitch, with all clubs held to having a pitch of a suitable standard and maintaining it to that standard.

Why anyone would want any different in our top flight is absolutely beyond me.

I'm not sure anyone does want any different. The root cause is the massive inequality in the leagues, and the downright bloody awful TV deals and how little of that money makes its way downwards.

Instead of fixing that, the top clubs want to make that 'elite' circle a wee bit smaller.

[Harry Kinnear]

I would love us to have a grass pitch and the funds available to maintain it to the levels that the top flight seem to want going forward. The only issue with that is we spent £350k on a brand new pitch at the beginning of this season.

If say us or Airdrie, Raith, Hamilton, Livi win the Championship before this proposal comes into place is there funds going to be made available to us all to rip up our pitch, lay a new grass one and give us support in maintaining the grass pitch. If not then that makes the Championship seasons meaningless as half the league won’t meet the criteria for promotion, this isn’t good for Scottish football.

I get the thinking behind fans not wanting artificial surfaces that are like carpets but ours is good. I honestly can’t think of the last time we had a serious injury on our pitch and we have loads of community groups who use it as well as other local football clubs. 
 

I fully expect the ban to come in but I hope the powers that be and the clubs in the top flight at least take the time to hear the arguments from clubs like mine.

[Alert Mongoose]

1 hour ago, Arch Stanton said:

P-A-U-L-I

Funny way to spell Mirren.

 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

1 hour ago, Div said:

I spent a lot of the season praising Raith Rovers, and rightly so, but I do not at any point remember prasing their pitch.

Can you show me some tweets where I did that?

I don't think I watched Rovers more than a couple of times on the telly at home to be perfectly honest.

I thought the Airdrie pitch looked decent the other week when I watched them play Thistle and I commented on that.

I've said all along that I completely understand why artificial pitches are a sensible move in the lower leagues.

In the top flight of our professional game though I want all 12 teams to be playing on the same surface, a good quality grass pitch, with all clubs held to having a pitch of a suitable standard and maintaining it to that standard.

Why anyone would want any different in our top flight is absolutely beyond me.

You were praising matches played on it, not the pitch itself. Matches that were highly competitive and entertaining. Almost as if the pitch was completely irrelevant...

Then after the vote, what was it? Football is an entertainment business and matches on plastic are not entertaining (or words to those effect).

 

I know you are a great promoter of Scottish football at all levels which is why seeing this patter is so disappointing when there has been literally 0 (ZERO) reasons given for disposing of them with all the financial turmoil they will cause, similar to 1998 and all that. There has been not one voice raised defending the points put to the SPFL in the Statement issued by the "Astro 6" (a term I have just invented), which is quite telling.

And the idea that all top flight teams will have identical grass pitches is a fantasy. Plus the fact that astro pitches are already held to stringent standards, and are accepted up to UCL semi final matches also punctured the idea that somehow teams are putting down some sort of two bob, Luton/Stirling/QPR surface.

[NorthBank]

I am a member of SMiSA but abstained from the vote. I hate watching games on plastic but understand why some clubs need them to generate income.

I believe all clubs at the top level should have the same surface of grass pitches. However promoted clubs should be given something towards replacing plastic pitches if that is what they have.

[Div]

Just now, Ranaldo Bairn said:

You were praising matches played on it, not the pitch itself. Matches that were highly competitive and entertaining. Almost as if the pitch was completely irrelevant...

Then after the vote, what was it? Football is an entertainment business and matches on plastic are not entertaining (or words to those effect).

 

I know you are a great promoter of Scottish football at all levels which is why seeing this patter is so disappointing when there has been literally 0 (ZERO) reasons given for disposing of them with all the financial turmoil they will cause, similar to 1998 and all that. There has been not one voice raised defending the points put to the SPFL in the Statement issued by the "Astro 6" (a term I have just invented), which is quite telling.

And the idea that all top flight teams will have identical grass pitches is a fantasy. Plus the fact that astro pitches are already held to stringent standards, and are accepted up to UCL semi final matches also punctured the idea that somehow teams are putting down some sort of two bob, Luton/Stirling/QPR surface.

I don't see it as "patter".

It's my opinion, and my opinion didn't change because of outcome of the SMiSA vote. I was part of that vote and I voted in favour of the resolution.

Part of the SMiSA terms of agreement when buying the majority shareholding of the club actually included a red line on certain items, such as changing the club name, changing the club colours, selling the stadium, and adopting an artificial pitch.

In short the club cannot ever consider switching to an artificial pitch without the SMiSA membership voting it through. That was put in place in 2021 so this notion that St.Mirren fans like me are "suddenly" anti-plastic is utter nonsense.

I've been quite consistent that I think artificial pitches are fine and sensible in the lower leagues where money is extremely tight.

I'd contend that in the top flight though where the financial rewards for success and the penalty for failure and relegation are so dramatic, that it is fair and logical that all teams are playing on the same surface so any notion of an "advantage" of playing on an artificial pitch is removed. I'm not saying teams get an advantage or don't but it removes it once and for all from the conversation.

The fact the resolution is trying to set a high minimum standard for those pitches across the Premiership, and the adoption of a pitch consultancy firm to help clubs get there and stay there should also be a positive. The resolution is not just about banning artificial pitches.

I'd also contend that the pitches that Kilmarnock and Livingston currently have are not conducive to teams delivering entertaining football. Now it may well be that pitches like Airdries are much better (it did certainly LOOK a lot better when I watched it on TV the other week) but my personal experience of watching top flight football on plastic in recent times has been of Hamilton, Livingston and Kilmarnock, and they're pitches have all been fucking rank. In my opinion.

I've sympathy with teams coming up who will need to spend big to get their pitch up to scratch, and I'd absolutley support some central financial help being given to help address that, as I personally don't want the shop to be any more closed than it already is, but I fail to see how any football supporter in this country wouldn't want all 12 top flight teams all playing their football on good quality grass pitches.

I've not even touched on the concerns raised in the Netherlands about the health & safety concerns of rubber crumb on artificial surfaces, but it's yet another angle to this story that also needs to be considered.

 

 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

Point taken about the H&S of the crumb. Still to be clarified.

I'm stunned that in among all those sensible caveats inserted at the time of the takeover, one was inserted about artificial pitches. Seems a bizarre thing to insist on. In my opinion.

If/when this goes through, it is an absolute bare minimum that significant financial support is allowed for a Falkirk/Rovers/Airdrie/Stenhousemuir coming up to the Premiership and having to convert to grass.

The Dutch manage that, don't they? Using European bonanzas to help those a bit further down. Here? * sour laughter *

Anyway I think I have bored everyone on this thread stupid over the last couple of days, so I'll leave it there.

[Pizzo]

St mirren are in the fortunate position of having a newish ground with newish drainage etc and very low stands which enable them to have a nice surface.

Rugby park for example went from great to terrible within the time it took to build 3 new stands that block out all the light and air flow needed for grass. 

Without spending on growth lamps and the electricity they guzzle its unworkable for clubs with higher stands to have good grass during the winter months.

 

 

[Molotov]

1 hour ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

the "Astro 6" (a term I have just invented), which is quite telling.

Telling?

Samsung already have a watch by that name…..

[Div]

41 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Point taken about the H&S of the crumb. Still to be clarified.

I'm stunned that in among all those sensible caveats inserted at the time of the takeover, one was inserted about artificial pitches. Seems a bizarre thing to insist on. In my opinion.

If/when this goes through, it is an absolute bare minimum that significant financial support is allowed for a Falkirk/Rovers/Airdrie/Stenhousemuir coming up to the Premiership and having to convert to grass.

The Dutch manage that, don't they? Using European bonanzas to help those a bit further down. Here? * sour laughter *

Absolutely agree, we can't allow this to become an enormous barrier to entry. Clubs coming up need to be given the financial support they need to make the transition and it also needs to be able to be done within the timeframe of a single close season. I've no idea how long it takes to take an artificial surface and change it to grass, or how much of the existing infrastructure can be used in doing so.

 

[santheman]

2 hours ago, Harry Kinnear said:

I would love us to have a grass pitch and the funds available to maintain it to the levels that the top flight seem to want going forward. The only issue with that is we spent £350k on a brand new pitch at the beginning of this season.

If say us or Airdrie, Raith, Hamilton, Livi win the Championship before this proposal comes into place is there funds going to be made available to us all to rip up our pitch, lay a new grass one and give us support in maintaining the grass pitch. If not then that makes the Championship seasons meaningless as half the league won’t meet the criteria for promotion, this isn’t good for Scottish football.

I get the thinking behind fans not wanting artificial surfaces that are like carpets but ours is good. I honestly can’t think of the last time we had a serious injury on our pitch and we have loads of community groups who use it as well as other local football clubs. 
 

I fully expect the ban to come in but I hope the powers that be and the clubs in the top flight at least take the time to hear the arguments from clubs like mine.

With all due respect I can agree with your point that clubs with artificial pitches winning promotion to the SPL should be given financial help to install a grass pitch but why would you expect ongoing financial support to maintain it?