G_H Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) My problem with the current setup is how often the same teams play each other, over and over and over and over. You can potentially play another team: 4x in the league 2x in playoffs 1x in League cup 1x in Scottish cup 1x in Challenge cup More in the cups in the event that those teams meet again beyond the group stages. That's an extreme of 9+ times. A quarter of a team's games in a season And I've probably forgotten about things like replays as I can't be bothered to go and check where those come into play. I certainly struggle to maintain interest mid-season in particular, because I know there are plenty more fixtures against the same teams to repeat (plus the weather is generally crap around those months to sit around outside in). So I suppose my position would be that it's a poor structure for fans - if not clubs out to protect standing and bank balances - and that its up to the league and its members to put out an entertaining product, which I don't think the current league structure accommodates. Edited April 23 by G_H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuctifano Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said: If you left the top flight at 12 though, then expanding the second tier to 18 simply wouldn't cause the same problem of that gulf between divisions. You get away from clubs playing each other six times a season unless you're very unlucky with cup draws, only drop one home game compared to currently, the meaningless game argument is hugely overstated and there's something in it for everyone. just to piggyback on this, the usual argument is it allows managers to play more youth players without fear of losing games but in reality: 1) there are actually far fewer "meaningless" game than you'd imagine. Even in the English Championship this year, a league of 24 teams and 46 games, with 3 games to go there were only 3 teams who were arithmetically both safe from relegation and out of the promotion play off race (plus Rotherham who were already relegated). With 6 games to go literally everyone still had something to play for. 2) going back to the Scottish second tier, we've seen on here in the last few weeks the discussions about how much prize money means to a team at this level and that the difference between finishing a place or two higher is effectively an extra couple of players wages for the following season. yes, that bit is a slightly harder sell to casual fans rather than diehards but there's always something to play for. In a 2nd tier of 18 you'd probably have the same playoff system as now as Prem clubs still unlikely to agree to 2 down automatically but you'd also have 3 going down at the bottom, 3rd bottom can either be automatic or playoff. I think folk would be surprised about the low number of "meaningless" games in that scenario. Edited April 23 by Fuctifano 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 18 minutes ago, G_H said: My problem with the current setup is how often the same teams play each other, over and over and over and over. You can potentially play another team: 4x in the league 2x in playoffs 1x in League cup 1x in Scottish cup 1x in Challenge cup More in the cups in the event that those teams meet again beyond the group stages. That's an extreme of 9+ times. A quarter of a team's games in a season And I've probably forgotten about things like replays as I can't be bothered to go and check where those come into play. I certainly struggle to maintain interest mid-season in particular, because I know there are plenty more fixtures against the same teams to repeat (plus the weather is generally crap around those months to sit around outside in). So I suppose my position would be that it's a poor structure for fans - if not clubs out to protect standing and bank balances - and that its up to the league and its members to put out an entertaining product, which I don't think the current league structure accommodates. You might struggle to maintain an interest but fans are still turning out for games in Scotland more than they are in any other country in Europe (per capita). If fans don't like the set up the simple solution is to stop going and change will happen. Keep turning up and you'll be served the same fare. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, G_H said: My problem with the current setup is how often the same teams play each other, over and over and over and over. You can potentially play another team: 4x in the league 2x in playoffs 1x in League cup 1x in Scottish cup 1x in Challenge cup More in the cups in the event that those teams meet again beyond the group stages. That's an extreme of 9+ times. A quarter of a team's games in a season And I've probably forgotten about things like replays as I can't be bothered to go and check where those come into play. I certainly struggle to maintain interest mid-season in particular, because I know there are plenty more fixtures against the same teams to repeat (plus the weather is generally crap around those months to sit around outside in). So I suppose my position would be that it's a poor structure for fans - if not clubs out to protect standing and bank balances - and that its up to the league and its members to put out an entertaining product, which I don't think the current league structure accommodates. At the core of it, this is my main problem with our current setup. The fact that it's technically possible for a Championship club to play another Championship club 10 (TEN) times in the space of a season is absurd. The problem isn't quite so extreme for the Premiership where teams can't meet in the playoffs or the Challenge Cup, and so where the maximum is only 7 - which is still far too high a number, but anyway. The suggestion mentioned above of 12-18-18 would be fine. Just like all the other proposals mentioned, it's never going to get past the voting structure because it would mean there are more league clubs needing a split of the SPFL cash, but I would much rather an 18-team league where my club gets a wee bit less cash and plays some "meaningless" (they're never really meaningless, though, as covered previously) games than I have to watch Thistle play Airdrie, Queen's Park or whoever 7 times a season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: You might struggle to maintain an interest but fans are still turning out for games in Scotland more than they are in any other country in Europe (per capita). If fans don't like the set up the simple solution is to stop going and change will happen. Keep turning up and you'll be served the same fare. Fans would go to games whatever the setup is, imo. Attendances in the second tier have remained broadly similar* in the SPFL era (since the playoffs were introduced) to what they were in the 00s when the First Division had 'one up, one down' and where there were far more so-called meaningless games for teams in the top-half/middle of the table. *notable exceptions to the rule being when various combinations of Rangers, Hearts and Hibs were playing at this level 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 6 minutes ago, Nightmare said: Fans would go to games whatever the setup is, imo. Attendances in the second tier have remained broadly similar* in the SPFL era (since the playoffs were introduced) to what they were in the 00s when the First Division had 'one up, one down' and where there were far more so-called meaningless games for teams in the top-half/middle of the table. *notable exceptions to the rule being when various combinations of Rangers, Hearts and Hibs were playing at this level Precisely. Fans are tribal, they don't particularly care who their team are playing they just want to go and watch them. You see it too with the B team stuff, attendances are down for those games but you still get a core of the support who will go and watch it even if they don't agree with it. If fans want change they need to stop giving money to their clubs and not enough people will do that to ever force the hand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 7 hours ago, G_H said: My problem with the current setup is how often the same teams play each other, over and over and over and over. You can potentially play another team: 4x in the league 2x in playoffs 1x in League cup 1x in Scottish cup 1x in Challenge cup More in the cups in the event that those teams meet again beyond the group stages. That's an extreme of 9+ times. A quarter of a team's games in a season And I've probably forgotten about things like replays as I can't be bothered to go and check where those come into play. I certainly struggle to maintain interest mid-season in particular, because I know there are plenty more fixtures against the same teams to repeat (plus the weather is generally crap around those months to sit around outside in). So I suppose my position would be that it's a poor structure for fans - if not clubs out to protect standing and bank balances - and that its up to the league and its members to put out an entertaining product, which I don't think the current league structure accommodates. We got six of those this year vs the Pars, and if they’d made the playoffs we would have potentially seen eight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagsfan57 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, TxRover said: We got six of those this year vs the Pars, and if they’d made the playoffs we would have potentially seen eight. I think when we played QP on the 2nd Jan, that was the 8th time in a year and a day - not quite all in the one season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, TxRover said: We got six of those this year vs the Pars, and if they’d made the playoffs we would have potentially seen eight. Thank f**k we never did 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 On 23/04/2024 at 07:37, G_H said: My problem with the current setup is how often the same teams play each other, over and over and over and over. You can potentially play another team: 4x in the league 2x in playoffs 1x in League cup 1x in Scottish cup 1x in Challenge cup More in the cups in the event that those teams meet again beyond the group stages. That's an extreme of 9+ times. A quarter of a team's games in a season And I've probably forgotten about things like replays as I can't be bothered to go and check where those come into play. Thank heavens the League Cup isn't two-legged anymore, which once caused us to play Hearts 8 times in the same season. All cracking games, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJimmyofNic Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 Inverness or Queens Park for the play offs, next week will be interesting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 Week 33 Table for Dummies Summary: After last year we had 9 of 10 teams playing for something in the final weekend, this time we have 5 playing for money, but 2 playing for reals. The playoffs are set unless Airdrie can overturn a 3 point lead and a +10 GD for Partick (possible, since Partick are at DU, however Airdrie face a desperate QP), the trapdoor is sprung, and the relegation playoff is down to Queen's Park and ICT. It's really simple: Queen's Park win, they're safe. Queen's Park draw, they're safe if ICT draw or lose. Queen's Park lose, they're only safe if ICT lose. ICT must at least draw (needs a QP loss) or win (needs a QP loss or draw). Of the rest in the 5-8 scum...Morton has 5-7 open, Pars 5-7, Ayr 6-8, QP 7-9 and ICT 8-9...which is likely bad news for ICT. Now, League One...meh, decided...Montrose plays the number 9, and the Accies play Alloa. Premiership, more fun, as Livi can still make 10th (and pigs can fly), but it looks pretty certain to be St. Johnstone and Ross County fighting for the 11th place comb. If anyone's watching, in League Two, Clyde may complete a great escape, as they now lead Stranraer by 2 point and a +2 GD. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) Interesting that ICT might get relegated with a positive goal difference if they can beat Morton. Well, I find it interesting, at least. League Two ought to be ashamed that they've allowed Clyde to recover. I'm a bit surprised that we look like losing Stranraer, as I've always thought of them as a third tier club, but they've gradually been circling the drain for about five years now. The Lowland League's really developing a scary look for League Two clubs. Edit: just noticed that this looks like being the eighth season in a row that Stranraer have finished in a lower position than the previous one. Edited April 27 by BFTD 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Starko Rover Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 hours ago, BFTD said: Interesting that ICT might get relegated with a positive goal difference if they can beat Morton. Well, I find it interesting, at least. League Two ought to be ashamed that they've allowed Clyde to recover. I'm a bit surprised that we look like losing Stranraer, as I've always thought of them as a third tier club, but they've gradually been circling the drain for about five years now. The Lowland League's really developing a scary look for League Two clubs. Edit: just noticed that this looks like being the eighth season in a row that Stranraer have finished in a lower position than the previous one. No disrespect intended to Stranraer as I’ve nothing against them but they’re probably the most at risk team in the SPFL when you look at their attendance statistics. It’s actually a credit to their board they’ve done so well over the years but with such a low average attendance it’s only a matter of time until a bad season comes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Jaffo Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 30 minutes ago, San Starko Rover said: No disrespect intended to Stranraer as I’ve nothing against them but they’re probably the most at risk team in the SPFL when you look at their attendance statistics. It’s actually a credit to their board they’ve done so well over the years but with such a low average attendance it’s only a matter of time until a bad season comes. 10 years ago they were dishing out consistent pastings to us with a pretty solid squad for League 1 level. Andy Stirling, Stevie Bell, Frank McKeown, Jamie Longworth etc. All kinda went to shit when it was revealed they were massively overpaying for players and their squad got gutted under Stevie Farrell. We had loads of good battles with them in League 1 so I wouldn’t want to see them relegated as I think they’d disappear and not be seen again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 (edited) 7 hours ago, TxRover said: Week 33 Table for Dummies Summary: After last year we had 9 of 10 teams playing for something in the final weekend, this time we have 5 playing for money, but 2 playing for reals. Of the rest in the 5-8 scum...Morton has 5-7 open, Pars 5-7, Ayr 6-8, QP 7-9 and ICT 8-9...which is likely bad news for ICT. Swing and a miss, champ. Edited April 27 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1885 Posted April 28 Share Posted April 28 21 minutes ago, virginton said: Swing and a miss, champ. Needless but class 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuctifano Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 Last planned update on this season's thread from me and one that shows where the model can fall down: Model has QP as underdogs at home to Airdrie as over the season -and recently- Airdrie have been a better team and if this game was in February Airdrie probably would be favourites with the bookies. However the bet365 odds (other bookies are available but they're generally all wankers) reflect the weight of money on QP based on public perception of QP needing to win vs a team with very little to play for, and the fact Airdrie are likely to rest players. ICT are also heavier favourites with the bookies than they are with the model but not to same extent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted May 3 Author Share Posted May 3 Quite the season...it's never been this close 5th-9th, 3 points between them compares to the second best of 5 points in 08-09 (of course, in 08-09, 5-8 all had 47 points). ICT can feel hard done by, as only one year out of thirty would 42 points have not been good for ending ahead of ninth, and that was 08-09 (again) when ninth had 42 points. Dundee United win with 1 point above the long-term average of 74 for first. Raith second with +4 points. Patrick are third, -4 points. Airdrie are fourth, -4 points. Morton are fifth, -6 points. The Pars are sixth, -1 point. Ayr are seventh, +2 points Queen's Park eighth, +4 points. ICT ninth, +7 points. Arbroath tenth, -2 point. Total points earned 493, +1 over long-term average. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_diamond Posted May 3 Share Posted May 3 Tremendous stats all season @TxRover well in for doing this 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.