League split - good or bad ?

[VincentGuerin]

People get very exercised about the 18/19/20 home away games thing. I understand to an extent, but I also don't really care much. Couldn't tell you how many home/away games Hearts have had in any given season.

Just the price of doing business. I think the pros outweigh the cons.

[Lurkst]

5 hours ago, GreenGray said:

I like it to an extent, if you are a fan of the club that finishes seventh with no prospect of relegation it results in five meaningless games, but them's the breaks.

The fact the post split is only 5 games is one of the main selling points of the current system. 

The below options that leave a 14 game bottom eight are horrific to contemplate IMO.

6 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

* 10 teams playing 4 times (36 games)
* 14 teams playing 4 times with 6/8 split (36/40 games)
* 12 teams playing 4 times with 8/8/8 split (36 games)
or put another way: all are simply variations on the same general theme.

 

[Meeniedee]

i suppose the good thing about the split is if you're in the bottom 6 you know you only have to play teams down beside you....it must have been shite years ago when battling relegation and your final few games included the bigots...

[Lurkst]

22 minutes ago, Meeniedee said:

it must have been shite years ago when battling relegation and your final few games included the bigots...

Not always...

 

 

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Eder said:

The split is fucking awful.

Leagues should be consistent and not open to human manipulation.  However after 33 (uneven) games

• teams in 6th/7th place could be separated by a goal which would be fine if they had met their opponents an even number of times not three times
• clubs then have five other games with a system that is reliant on the same clubs from pervious seasons making up the top or bottom six. 
• when it doesn't work out - who decides??? - who knows
• The only thing right is that they all play 38 games just against different opponents in a random mix of H&A fixtures.
• The fact that some clubs can end up playing less home matches to away that could affect European places and relegation should render it inadequate alone.

You must hate one legged cup ties.

[Hoose Rice]

Usually good, this year for us it will be gang.

 

Hopefully we can stop one of the bigots winning the league or at the very least help relegate Aberdeen. 

[Hoose Rice]

4 hours ago, ropy said:

If Raith Rovers, Partick Thistle and Dunfermline were lifted up along with Dundee United into a larger top league would this not diminish the Championship?  Smaller crowds and weaker teams, or are we only interested in the top league?

Good point, keep the DABs doon there.

[Eder]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

You must hate one legged cup ties.

They are brilliant - the luck of the draw so I don't see what they have to do with a straightforward league set up made complicated by clubs that can't accept relegation is part of any league.

Edited April 2 by Eder

[Eder]

8 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

* 10 teams playing 4 times (36 games)
* 14 teams playing 4 times with 6/8 split (36/40 games)
* 12 teams playing 4 times with 8/8/8 split (36 games) 

I believe we need to play to our strengths - the leagues of ten suit Scottish Football, reference the Championship which truely is a great competition.

We should go to PL1 and PL2 both with ten teams that would greatly increase gates and overall interest as the majority of games would mean something.  A bigger prize pot spread among the top 20 which should be supplemented with a decent TV contract.

We were told when there were only 10 teams in the top division it was too competitive and too many managers got sacked but more get sacked now than ever and as stated before relegation is part of all leagues.

I've not seen a better option than the top 10.

[ahemps]

12 hours ago, Eder said:

The split is fucking awful.

Leagues should be consistent and not open to human manipulation.  However after 33 (uneven) games

• teams in 6th/7th place could be separated by a goal which would be fine if they had met their opponents an even number of times not three times
• clubs then have five other games with a system that is reliant on the same clubs from pervious seasons making up the top or bottom six. 
• when it doesn't work out - who decides??? - who knows
• The only thing right is that they all play 38 games just against different opponents in a random mix of H&A fixtures.
• The fact that some clubs can end up playing less home matches to away that could affect European places and relegation should render it inadequate alone.

One thing is absolutely certain is that you or Rangers will never have 20 away fixtures. It has happened to numerous others but will never happen to either of you two. The perks of being part of the establishment.

I remember the year after Clarke left Killie and the top 6 was quite different from the year before with Motherwell and Livi replacing Hearts and Killie. Rangers had played all the other top 5 at home twice and if it wasn't for Covid cancelling the season it would have led to a headache for the SPFL. At least 2 of the remaining 5 would have had to go to Ibrox for a 3rd time (maybe a 3rd if Rangers were on 17 away games at the time of the split).

 

[CoF]

10 hours ago, Eder said:

I believe we need to play to our strengths - the leagues of ten suit Scottish Football, reference the Championship which truely is a great competition.

Surely the championship is great because it’s a cluster of clubs with similar resources. The smaller structure helps that of course, but it doesn’t automatically translate to the top flight- which is kinda fucked no matter how you structure it. 

[Dons_1988]

54 minutes ago, CoF said:

Surely the championship is great because it’s a cluster of clubs with similar resources. The smaller structure helps that of course, but it doesn’t automatically translate to the top flight- which is kinda fucked no matter how you structure it. 

Yes, it’s the point that seems to be missed. 

Top flight is structured to a) maximise tv/commercial revenue effectively through two teams and b) maximise competition in the rest of the division to maintain attendances and gate revenue at 10 clubs. 

The championship is as a league pyramid structure is meant to be I.e. a grouping of similar resources/standard teams competing against each other over a season. The championship is great because fundamentally it’s exactly how a league division should be. 

[Charles Stiles]

2 hours ago, ahemps said:

The perks of being part of the establishment.

FTFY.

[RandomGuy.]

The top flight is a 10 team division.

[VincentGuerin]

11 hours ago, Eder said:

I believe we need to play to our strengths - the leagues of ten suit Scottish Football, reference the Championship which truely is a great competition.

We should go to PL1 and PL2 both with ten teams that would greatly increase gates and overall interest as the majority of games would mean something.  A bigger prize pot spread among the top 20 which should be supplemented with a decent TV contract.

Sorry, you'll need to explain this.

Also, gates can't be far off being about as good as they've ever been in the modern era. Do we need to improve gates? Can we?

Edited April 3 by VincentGuerin

[A Diamond For Me]

4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Sorry, you'll need to explain this.

Also, gates can't be far off being about as good as they've ever been in the modern era. Do we need to improve gates? Can we?

And are consistently about the best in Europe per capita, too.

Can't say anything about seaside leagues in Pakistan or Panama, of course.

[ahemps]

1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said:

Also, gates can't be far off being about as good as they've ever been in the modern era. Do we need to improve gates? Can we?

1 hour ago, A Diamond For Me said:

And are consistently about the best in Europe per capita, too.

I wonder about this, gates do seem to be healthy just now but only a couple of years ago I was listening to the Aberdeen, Motherwell and another chairman who were saying the average age of the match going fan kept increasing. There wasn't the same amount of young fans going as years ago. This may have changed recently but it made me wonder in 10yrs or so will our attendance per capita drop slightly as it is quite an anomaly as stats go.

From my own very limited sample size I would say that in general kids will go to the football but are not as committed to weekly games as their dads are. 

[Ranaldo Bairn]

7 minutes ago, ahemps said:

I wonder about this, gates do seem to be healthy just now but only a couple of years ago I was listening to the Aberdeen, Motherwell and another chairman who were saying the average age of the match going fan kept increasing. There wasn't the same amount of young fans going as years ago. This may have changed recently but it made me wonder in 10yrs or so will our attendance per capita drop slightly as it is quite an anomaly as stats go.

From my own very limited sample size I would say that in general kids will go to the football but are not as committed to weekly games as their dads are. 

I think there has been a huge influx in young guys/kids going to the football in the last year or two.

U1876 have big numbers and have made a massive impact at TFS, but nearly every club has its own wee band of youngsters doing their thing. As long as they keep the heid they are more than welcome.

[oneteaminglasgow]

38 minutes ago, ahemps said:

I wonder about this, gates do seem to be healthy just now but only a couple of years ago I was listening to the Aberdeen, Motherwell and another chairman who were saying the average age of the match going fan kept increasing. There wasn't the same amount of young fans going as years ago. This may have changed recently but it made me wonder in 10yrs or so will our attendance per capita drop slightly as it is quite an anomaly as stats go.

From my own very limited sample size I would say that in general kids will go to the football but are not as committed to weekly games as their dads are. 

I always wondered if that was actually down to young guys not going as much or if it was just because Scotland has an ageing population generally.

At Thistle, there’s certainly plenty of young guys along every week which is obviously excellent to see. 

[A Diamond For Me]

We've certainly got lot more young folk at our games now, which is partially because we're enjoying a period of success but also because of cheap season tickets for kids.  It's certainly true that we've an aging population, and there's the compounding factor that people are much less likely to regularly attend things in an organised way compared to the past.  There are lots of Christians who seldom go to church, lots of people enjoy films who don't to the cinema, attendance at things like local history society lectures is a tiny handful of what it once was.  Many choirs and drama groups are on their last legs as they find it hard to get people who will commit to rehearsals on the regular basis they need to sustain performances.  There are all sorts of reasons for these shifts, but it certainly can't be taken as read that people will just keep turning up, because in many other walks of like they've stopped.  We do have high attendances at football in this country but it does and will continue to require care and attention to maintain that.