What is the point of labour ?

[SandyCromarty]

The Scottish Labour party at Holyrood have had nine leaders since 1999.

With that much there doesn't seem to be much continuity when you consider the SNP have had two.

Kezia Dugdale alway's looked like a secondary school head girl addressing adults..

The latest, Richard Leonard reminds me of typical shop steward who never wants to work on the shop floor but would rather blether shite with the management and get paid for it.

And I'm not knocking trade unions, I've been a member along the way.

The sad thing with the Labour Party is that it was founded by Scots on decent principles for the workers only to see it align itself with the Cuntservatives at the Referendum.

[pawpar]

And then there is this -

 

THE latest YouGov poll makes grim reading for Labour, and begs a certain question.

What will it take for Jeremy Corbyn's party to overtake their opponents?

The Conservatives are in meltdown and their pathetic Brexit infighting is splashed on the front-pages every day.

Theresa May bows and scrapes to the royals, Boris Johnson makes gaffe after gaffe and the Brexit Secretary is in the dark about the UK's Brexit strategy.

Yet the latest research from YouGov, carried out on June 25-26, shows Labour sitting at 37% in the polls and the Tories at 42%.

Somehow, Jeremy Corbyn has managed to lead his party to a 3% fall on the previous week (from 40%). They're now 5% behind.

Our Foreign Secretary can say "f**k business" over concerns from industry leaders, Jacob Rees-Mogg and the Tories can be waging open war against each other, and still, Labour fail to take even a minor lead.

At this point, it's hard know which is more mythical: the Brexit cash dividend the Tories are banking on, or the Brexit vote dividend Corbyn imagines is coming his way.

His half-hearted attempts to oppose a Tory hard Brexit, his refusal to back staying in a single market and customs union and his failure to stand up for Scotland's devolved powers are not paying off electorally.

If, with all the conditions set against the Tories, Labour can't lead in the polls, how can Scotland count on them to bring about change?

If we want rid of the hostile environment approach to immigration, and to create a fairer society, we'll need the powers to do it ourselves.

 

 

    To summarise - worst tory government ever yet labour still 5% behind in the polls. 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by pawpar

[Blue-Toon]

In Aberdeen, vote Labour get Conservative - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-44695645

[Detournement]

[Peppino Impastato]

10 minutes ago, Detournement said:

He can say whatever he wants if he can't get elected it's irrelevant.  And even if by some miracle he did, it's only for five years.  Independence is for life.

[Granny Danger]

19 hours ago, pawpar said:

And then there is this -

 

THE latest YouGov poll makes grim reading for Labour, and begs a certain question.

What will it take for Jeremy Corbyn's party to overtake their opponents?

The Conservatives are in meltdown and their pathetic Brexit infighting is splashed on the front-pages every day.

Theresa May bows and scrapes to the royals, Boris Johnson makes gaffe after gaffe and the Brexit Secretary is in the dark about the UK's Brexit strategy.

Yet the latest research from YouGov, carried out on June 25-26, shows Labour sitting at 37% in the polls and the Tories at 42%.

Somehow, Jeremy Corbyn has managed to lead his party to a 3% fall on the previous week (from 40%). They're now 5% behind.

Our Foreign Secretary can say "f**k business" over concerns from industry leaders, Jacob Rees-Mogg and the Tories can be waging open war against each other, and still, Labour fail to take even a minor lead.

At this point, it's hard know which is more mythical: the Brexit cash dividend the Tories are banking on, or the Brexit vote dividend Corbyn imagines is coming his way.

His half-hearted attempts to oppose a Tory hard Brexit, his refusal to back staying in a single market and customs union and his failure to stand up for Scotland's devolved powers are not paying off electorally.

If, with all the conditions set against the Tories, Labour can't lead in the polls, how can Scotland count on them to bring about change?

If we want rid of the hostile environment approach to immigration, and to create a fairer society, we'll need the powers to do it ourselves.

 

 

    To summarise - worst tory government ever yet labour still 5% behind in the polls. 

 

 

It's fucking chronic isn't it?

I can understand people being cynical about Labour but there are certain facts we cannot ignore.

The first is, we are still in the UK.  Yes it is terrible and yes it will be great when that situation no longer exists; but until that time we have to accept it as a reality.

The second is, there is only going to be a Tory government or a Labour one; even if they are minority governments no-one else is going to form a government.

The third is, a Labour government (particularly a minority one dependent upon SNP support) would be a far better option than a Tory one.

 

[Lurkst]

19 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

The Scottish Labour party at Holyrood have had nine leaders since 1999.

With that much there doesn't seem to be much continuity when you consider the SNP have had two.

The SNP have actually had three, and one of them did it twice. Still a tad more stable than Labour.

 

[Detournement]

Yougov is run by Stephan Shakespeare (from head of Conservative Party digital strategy) and Tory MP Na***** Zahawi founded it.

 

Funnily enough every time there is a Brexit set back Yougov pull out a poll which shows them well ahead....

[Granny Danger]

Corbyn proving his complete ineptitude yet again.  

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-local-buses-theresa-may-a8431096.html

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Hes also endeared himself to Scotland by requesting a public holiday if England win the world cup. A fascinating mixture of arseholery and a complete lack of any political/cultural sensitivity. This man couldnt be PM.

[pandarilla]

Corbyn proving his complete ineptitude yet again.  
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-pmqs-local-buses-theresa-may-a8431096.html

The thing about local transport is there's never a right time to raise it as an issue.

He's trying to get away from the usual petty point scoring that goes on with pmq's, and surely deserves done credit for that. You can guarantee there will be a whole lot more pressure on the issue of buses and fair timetables over the next week or two. He's just shone a light on a big problem.

[Granny Danger]

21 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

The thing about local transport is there's never a right time to raise it as an issue.

He's trying to get away from the usual petty point scoring that goes on with pmq's, and surely deserves done credit for that. You can guarantee there will be a whole lot more pressure on the issue of buses and fair timetables over the next week or two. He's just shone a light on a big problem.

Sorry but I have to disagree.  There are always a number of important political issues to consider at any time but only ONE issue that Corbyn should be concentrating on at the moment.  His own naive attitude towards Brexit is, of course, his Achilles heel.

Sadly Corbyn, who is now the leader of one the two main U.K. parties, still has a backbencher mentality.  If he had ever held a cabinet position he would be more willing to compromise his position and consider the bigger picture.  He has (or at least seem to have had) a chance to get into power and address over a decade of Tory austerity; austerity that has caused real suffering to real people.  However his lack of acumen means he is unlikely to be able to now get that chance.

I have taken an active interest in politics for over 45 years and I am struggling to think of a government and its Prime Minister so weak and so vulnerable; I also cannot remember the Tories being so divided.  May and the Tories are there for the taking and for Corbyn to be letting May off the hook at a time like this is unforgivable.

 

[Londonwell]

51 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

The thing about local transport is there's never a right time to raise it as an issue.

He's trying to get away from the usual petty point scoring that goes on with pmq's, and surely deserves done credit for that. You can guarantee there will be a whole lot more pressure on the issue of buses and fair timetables over the next week or two. He's just shone a light on a big problem.

It’s nothing to do with him wanting to talk about anything other than Brexit then, no? Sound.

As an opposition leader the man is completely useless.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Londonwell

[ICTJohnboy]

18 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Sorry but I have to disagree.  There are always a number of important political issues to consider at any time but only ONE issue that Corbyn should be concentrating on at the moment.  His own naive attitude towards Brexit is, of course, his Achilles heel.

Sadly Corbyn, who is now the leader of one the two main U.K. parties, still has a backbencher mentality.  If he had ever held a cabinet position he would be more willing to compromise his position and consider the bigger picture.  He has (or at least seem to have had) a chance to get into power and address over a decade of Tory austerity; austerity that has caused real suffering to real people.  However his lack of acumen means he is unlikely to be able to now get that chance.

I have taken an active interest in politics for over 45 years and I am struggling to think of a government and its Prime Minister so weak and so vulnerable; I also cannot remember the Tories being so divided.  May and the Tories are there for the taking and for Corbyn to be letting May off the hook at a time like this is unforgivable.

 

 

Surprised your memories don't stretch as far back as Sir Alec Douglas Home.

[pandarilla]

It’s nothing to do with him wanting to talk about anything other than Brexit then, no? Sound.
As an opposition leader the man is completely useless.

Of course it has a lot to do with this. His own party are as split as the Tories (and the country) over Brexit, and there's very little for him to gain by sticking his neck out one way or the other.

Anyone who thinks may is being let off the hook over Brexit is seriously over stating the role of PMQs. It's a charade.

I don't think he's a great leader but he gets far too much criticism for not playing the Westminster game.

[Londonwell]

57 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Of course it has a lot to do with this. His own party are as split as the Tories (and the country) over Brexit, and there's very little for him to gain by sticking his neck out one way or the other.

Anyone who thinks may is being let off the hook over Brexit is seriously over stating the role of PMQs. It's a charade.

I don't think he's a great leader but he gets far too much criticism for not playing the Westminster game.

You’ve literally described him playing party political games and then given him credit for not playing the ‘Westminster’ game. 

Him not ‘sticking his neck out’ over Brexit doesn’t sound like a  principaled anti Westminster guy to me. 

Eta. You’re correct May isn’t being let off the hook over Brexit but that’s got sweet f**k all to do with Corbyn. 

Edited July 4, 2018 by Londonwell

[Detournement]

Labour have a clear strategy of focusing on issues that directly effect voters. Housing, transport, health (especially mental health), education etc.

Brexit is still fairly abstract to the vast majority and is essentially constant background noise. It wasn't a factor in the 2017 GE and by the next GE it'll be done.

[Peppino Impastato]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Labour have a clear strategy of focusing on issues that directly effect voters. Housing, transport, health (especially mental health), education etc.

Brexit is still fairly abstract to the vast majority and is essentially constant background noise. It wasn't a factor in the 2017 GE and by the next GE it'll be done.

You mean they've shat out of taking a position on the biggest issue affecting voters for 100 years for fear of offending racists.

[Detournement]

56 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

You mean they've shat out of taking a position on the biggest issue affecting voters for 100 years for fear of offending racists.

They have a position. Customs union and regulatory allignment. Which is where the government is about to end up after 18 months of bluster. Labour doesn't want to join the EEA or have a second vote. They were in favour of a meaningful vote in parliament. Those are positions.

There are very legitimate reasons for left wingers to be against EU membership.

 

 

[ICTJohnboy]

52 minutes ago, Detournement said:

They have a position. Customs union and regulatory allignment. Which is where the government is about to end up after 18 months of bluster. Labour doesn't want to join the EEA or have a second vote. They were in favour of a meaningful vote in parliament. Those are positions.

There are very legitimate reasons for left wingers to be against EU membership.

 

 

 

Because they're incompetent and thick?