Yoss

It might be true, the Livi website doesn't seem to be very quick with its news.

And that's if Lee is fit. The Ashes starts in six months and his recovery time is estimated at five so there has to be some doubt about it. Remember all the promises about how quickly Flintoff would be back from his ankle problems? And yeah, Jaques would be first in line if fit. I don't know anything about Hughes except what was said about him during the last series.

No?

It wasn't so much that he didn't get going until the last Test, it was only at the Oval that he slowed down, played later and more carefully, scored more slowly and realised the need to build an innings rather than trying to bully the bowlers in his usual manner. That was the only time I can think of when he showed that kind of adaptability - but even that seems to have deserted him now.

I'll be glad to see the back of Hayden, made loads of runs without ever making you think he was a great player. Just a bully, really. On the few occasions in his career he's had to face really good pace bowling he's struggled. Against anything less than that when he can get his foot down the pitch and take the ball early he can make hay. For which, fair play I suppose - but good riddance anyway, never liked him. Pietersen has much to contribute to England yet, don't worry.

Statement from Pietersen - he had not resigned this morning but in light of the day's developments has come to accept the position is untenable. Disappointed as he still feels he has a lot to offer etc. Most importantly, he still intends to be on the West Indies tour as a player.

According to R5: Pietersen has now resigned, but it's only just happened within the last few minutes.

NZ's skipper is number 8, but we don't have anyone of Vettori's stature. Strauss has been seen coming out of Lords with Geoff Miller. The ECB have a press conference called for 18:00.

I'm hoping this will just turn out to be a warning shot to Pietersen, and a clear message that just because he's got his way over Moores it doesn't mean he's calling the shots - but that he will be allowed to continue as captain for now.

I'm confused now.

Strauss's position is safe enough for the foreseeable future. Obviously a bad run would see him under pressure again but that goes for anyone in any cricket team in the world.

Absolutely agreed on the first part; disagree on the second, Flintoff will not be considered. Strauss might be given the one-day captaincy too and put into the middle order, it's not like there's anyone there who can't be dislodged from the team at present.

England should be beating the West Indies anyway these days, that won't prove that everything is rosy. I'm more saddened by the loss of Pietersen than Moores but no matter, Strauss will do okay and let's get on with it. Be interesting to see whether Strauss gets the one day job too, being as he hasn't been in the team.

Thrilling end to the third Test in Sydney, meanwhile - Smith came out to bat at number 11 with his broken hand in order to save the game, got within ten balls of doing so before being bowled. Aus win the match, SA win the series 2-1. Great cricket in all three matches.

cricinfo are reporting that Moores has also gone. Edited to add: "Cricinfo understands that Andy Flower, Moores' assistant coach, will be offered the interim role for the West Indies tour, although it remains highly debatable whether he will accept the role in the current circumstances."

It's a weird coincidence the media just guessing a story that was about to arise though, don't you think?

The wages thing rather reads as if they just failed to take account of multiple bank holidays.

What a fucking great book that is, anyone who hasn't read it should do. Currently trying to read Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow, but not finding it easy.

Sorry, I think I probably misunderstood you last night. The implication in your post was that it was within Livi's power to avoid administration, which (assuming they are indeed insolvent) is not the case as I'm sure you know - they do need some co-operation / goodwill from creditors.

I think you misunderstand a bit here. It would help to know what CVA stands for. The V is for Volunary, and it means a majority of the creidtore have to agree to any such arrangement - it can't be imposed upon them.

I think both Partick and Dundee have the support and revenue to sustain full-time football in the long-term laying aside any current difficulties.

I seem to recall you making that confusion once before: I have no connection with Supporters Direct. All that is correct, Raith needed to sell. However, the state of Raith's finances is irrelevant to the point being made about the state of Livi's, if they were using money they ultimately didn't have. No idea whether you could say that was true in the specific instance, but clearly it's generally true of clubs who go into administration. Plenty of clubs have been badly run, have invested money they didn't have and then got by on a wing and a prayer. Some have got away with it, been lucky enough to have the success on the pitch or able to sell a player for decent wedge at a critical time or whatever. I daresay Raith took a bit of a gamble by going full-time in the early 90s and of course we wouldn't want to have the subsequent glory days taken off us. Had Leeds stayed in the Champions League a couple of seasons longer they might have established themselves sufficiently at that level to make Ridsdale's gamble pay off, and I doubt Leeds fans would have been quite so critical of that gamble as they are now. So I accept some of the point of there but for the grace of god arguments, but nonetheless I support strong penalties for clubs to whom it happens, it has to be discouraged. In the case of Livi, who have already gone through it not a million years ago, I'd expect that penalty to be severe, if it happens, particularly if there's no particular evidence that the club have learned the lesson and are doing anything about it (and I'm using "club" there in its wider sense, and including the supporters groups and what-have-you).

I only agree with that up to a point; there are some circumstances beyond their control but fans can make a difference to the direction and ownership of the club. And the first thing they ened to do is get themselves organised, get a proper active trust going and so on, as noted by some good people further up this thread, and make their feelings clear. If the messageboards are anything to go by (and I accept, they often aren't) then the majority opinion seems to be a head-in-sand "you're doing a great job Mr Massimo" type thing, and any dissenters are shouted down and accused of not being proper fans. I really do want Livi to survive and propser, but I want them to do so legitimately, if they're just going to bail themselves out with another creditor stitch-up and stagger onto the next bad business plan from the next bunch of charlatans then the game would be better off without them.

For my part I'm not revelling in anything, but I don't understand why I should feel sorry for Davie Hay, and I don't really understand why it's any more unfair on the fans than it is unfair on everyone elses' fans to allow clubs to get away with overspending.

What have Dunfermline got to do with it? Or do you just forget who you're insulting sometimes when you're getting carried away?