Ivo den Bieman

This is simply not true, as was explained a while back on the thread by someone else. Accrington Stanley, who owe £300k, were only saved by a substantial up front payment plus agreeing to a stringent repayment of the remaining debt, and were only allowed to do this because it was the first time it had happened to the re-formed club, and HMRC was convinced of their sincerity in repaying the debt owed. Had they hemmed and hawed or told lies, serially, like Massone, they wouldn't exist by now. Since then HMRC have pursued at least two other English clubs that I can think of with great vigour, and those proceedings are ongoing. A couple of non league clubs further down the pyramid have folded and HMRC is almost always on the death certificate as one of the causes.

You'd have thought that with such a high profile case, with a great deal riding on it, that even lawyers as mediocre as council lawyers would get the paperwork right. Belief-defying incompetence to be honest. So looks like Livingston will stumble on for another week, and another week of fact free speculation on here.

A re-formed "new" Livingston under fan or community ownership would certainly have my support, but after that I part company with you Tonsilitis- they'd have to take their chances alongside other applicants for a vacant league place and if another's sides application was better then they shouldn't be voted in purely on who they used to be (especially in the case of Livingston Mark One). Of course the whole election process is archaic and absurd, and a pyramid system is definitely needed. I imagine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will be solved before we get a pyramid system in Scottish football, though.

They will, because they will deem the consequences of their withdrawal/expulsion at this late stage to be worse than allowing them to hirple on on life support for the season. The SFL will also reason that another season will give Livi time to sort all these problems out. If the worst does come to the worst and they are liquidated, the SFL will then be able to shrug their shoulders, expunge the record and say "we gave them every chance" whilst neatly sidestepping their share of the blame in this whole fiasco.

I'd expect Wednesday's deadline to pass without much of note being said. All the council's action is is an irritancy of the current lease, which Massone can contest and spin out for months on end. I'd look out for a deal being done by the end of the week to ensure their "senior football priority" is met. They don't have the balls to do what they should do- liquidate the club and start again in the EOS under Trust/community ownership, in order to begin building a credible campaign for the re-born AFC Livingston Whatever to take the place of the old club in Div 3 for 2010-11. E2A- as to the SFL, they probably won't do anything until the following week, once the outcome of WLC vs. Massone is a little clearer. With the club struggling to have a home ground for the start of the season, and with several current and former playing and coaching staff still awaiting settlement of monies owing to them, there is a clear case for the club to be immediately relegated to Div 3 as were the old Gretna last season. In that scenario I suspect Massone and Rankine's carpetbaggers will likely walk away, leaving the way open for a McDougall takeover. Only a real football man like McDougall would take over a third divison club in the current financial climate. Don't hold your breath for any of that happening though.

Chris Innes is alleged not to have been paid whilst all the other first teamers were.

Phil Cave has signed for conference club Gateshead.

I'm convinced that after the last day's posts on here that nothing will happen and Livi will get through this. They benefit from a council not willing to close the club down, indeed willing to do almost anything to keep the name of Livingston on the pools coupon, and a football regulating authority lacking the will and the resources to do anything about it. A football authority which energetically pursues the likes of Brechin City for an alleged breach of a frankly irrelevant UEFA licensing directive, and looks the other way when a club runs up debts to can't afford and then expects others to pick up the tab. So a small club turning a small profit is clobbered by the SFL, having lived within ts means throughout its existence (and payed the price of decades of pretty unglamorous football in the nether regions of the domestic leagues, at least until the mid 80s), and a small club which ignores economic reality and continues to harbour an absolutely false self image as an SPL club in waiting, is left to f**k people over unhindered. Either way the creditors are shafted and, to be honest, if this shower of chancers are allowed to start the season in SFL1, so is the integrity of Scottish league competition. The only way of making recompense to the creditors, as DF suggests, is to get a system in place whereby historic debt is payed off. But how long does the wee painter and decorator have to wait for his four grand for painting the boardroom? Ten years? That's an eternity for someone struggling to keep a small business afloat on very tight margins. The whole thing is a standing disgrace and an absolute embarrassment to Scottish football.

Duncan's last post has it right- there's no substance behind this Council "action". They're taslking tough to appease angry ratepayers. A deal will be done in secret, and the council will appear to get their money repayed whilst securing their fucking "senior football" priority. Livingston survive. Again.

is this true? i thought it was reported at the time that it was a notice of intention to appoint an interim liquidator. If you're right, then Livingston will scrape through again for sure, with the creditors burned and the SFL doing nothing, and the council's "tough stance" being nothing more than hot air designed to placate angry ratepayers.

don't hold your breath on that one. The SFL are still hiding away in a darkened room, hoping that this somehow all goes away. one thing- if Livingston *start* the season then the whole situation becomes much more high profile- if you're going to close a club down best do it in the close season when no other party is involved. Once they start, this may strengthen the hands of those on the council who are half hearted at best at this liquidation action. The possible legal shilly-shallying that could still happen over the liquidation, outlined by Tonsilitis, means that although they are down on their luck at present, Massone and chums are far from finished- and neither is the club.

edited due to being a complete fuckwit

see, this is the kind of stuff, along with the views of John Murphy, that makes it seem as though Livingston will survive, despite everything off the pitch saying they shouldn't. A week is a long time for the Council's spine to melt, and they also will benefit from the SFL's desperation that they shouldn't go to the wall.

I wouldn't despair just yet, there's still a week to go and has has been shown countless times in the past Livingston have the luck of the devil in these situations. It looks grim on balance at the moment but it wouldn't surprise me to see Livingston emerge largely unscathed, by either the emergence of another sawdust Caesar, who hasn't yet shown his hand, or by "Livi-minded" councillors winning further time behind closed doors. I'm only going by what Tonsilitis has posted, as he is the expert, but the council's writ will result in liquidation if payment of the rent isn't made, as I understand it. If no money is forthcoming when the statutory notice period expires, an interim liquidator will be appointed and that's the end of the current club. The term "administration" is being peddled about by journalists who seem not to understand what they're talking about. Unless Massone does it himself, which given his MO of pig headedness, arrogance, deceit and general fantasism, isn't likely, then administration isn't going to happen. By the way, the Herald article suggested that the Inland Revenue had *not* received money from the Griffiths sale, and that the HMRC spokesman wouldn't be drawn on their approach to the club's difficulties. Scottish Power haven;t yet been paid either.

as well as being factually incorrect, with regard to the death of Airdrieonians/Clydebank/Airdrie United, your post overlooks the fact that it is precisely by avoiding the "hard option" throughout their existence that LFC keep finding themselves in this position, time after time. administration isn't hard- living within your means and paying local authorities, businessmen and tradesmen what they are due in reasonable time, is. Only Livingston can put themselves in administration which they show no sign of doing- the council action means liquidation if it is allowed to run its course without full payment of the £280k. I can only agree with other posters that any serious "investor" with money behind them would have paid up by now.

Unfortunately for you, the council are being realistic, and if the rumblings in today's Record are to be believed, they're not going to take a chance on any more "extended repayment plans" or the like, and will liquidate the club if 280k is not forthcoming before or in 9 days time- when the interim liquidator is appointed and the demise of LFC becomes irreversible. After all having the current LFC at Almondvale isn't the only way the council can recoup its money- closing down the club, flattening the stadium then re-selling the land when the property market picks up would be the most fail-safe way of doing so. Perhaps with some of the money they will build a much smaller stadium elswhere in the town for any new fan-run club to have its home, but after being utterly burned with this current perennially-bankrupt franchising operation I wouldn't be surprised if the council kept a much lower profile in the building of any new park. The upside to this smaller investment, and the new Livingston football team being fan run, is that the club will be much less prone to chancers, shysters and fly by nights looking to turn a quick buck at others' expense- the kinds of people who are attracted to the current Livingston. Massone may well be history, but he's going to take the club with him unless someone gives him some money to go away. Understandably, there aren't any volunteers for that role. Finally, you seem to be labouring under the delusion that everyone posting on this thread is a Livingston fan. The posts are perfectly "logical" when you realise that they are not. As you're new to the board, have a look under the posters name- the club they actually support is usually there in bold amongst their information. Whilst some seem to feel sorry for the few decent Livingston fans, most seem at best apathetic about the prospect of the club surviving, and in a few cases actively wish for its demise for reasons which have been exponded at length earlier in this monster thread. In summary these are 1. people didn't like Meadowbank being killed in 1995 and franchised 2. people don't like Livi for achieving "success" by spending money they didn't have and which it subsequently transpired they had no intention of repaying 3. people instinctively don't like clubs run by crooks, liars and shysters, all of whom have featured heavily if not exclusively in Livingston boardrooms of the past. If I were Rankine I'd be contenting myself with my existing portfolio of lower league Scottish football clubs with reasonably recently built grounds. The history of Livingston shows that it is a club built on sand, which drains people of money without ever actually paying out any back. Whatever money is invested will be irretrievably lost. No sane person would commit so much as a Latvian Lat to the club at present. It really would be best for all concerned if the current club just disappeared. The fans who really can be arsed and want to get their hands dirty can form their own team to watch at the weekends without any of the bollocks politics or false hopes raised on foul crooked winds. The Scottish game is rid of Massone and his entourage. As for those who are sitting on their arse passively waiting for the next "rich" saviour to ride in on a white Arab stallion and "take the club back to the SPL"- well - f**k 'em.

From what I know of it Cowden face an uncertain future at Central park, but there's no suggestion of financial difficulty. East Stirling are absolutely fine financially and have a working party working hard to find a site for a new stadium in the Falkirk area. As to the bit in bold, unless you're taking the piss, it encapsulates in a nutshell why so many football fans not connected to Livingston want to see them fold or at least severely punished, finally, for their pissing all over the rulebook for years. These are fans who normally are the first to put their hand in their pocket to help another club in trouble, as was seen during Stranraer's difficulty earlier this year. There was genuine goodwill towards that club- the bit in bold explains why there's very little or no goodwill towards yours.

also, Rankine is being very clever. "Give us time I've got 250k" is a very smart pitch designed to cause doubts/divisions in a council already wary of the consequences of being seen to shut the club down. Mind you, if he really does have 250k, the first place he should be sending it is to the council to clear up the problem with the stadium- that's what's going to send Livi to the wall more than anything else. I just hope the council's resolve is as strong as it seemed to be last week. Agree also with he calls for the SFL to set a deadline, but won't hold my breath.

Where is all this stuff about Cowdenbeath's league place being up for sale/transfer coming from? sounds like sheer fucking fantasy to me.

so yesterday was a lot of hot air, Massone is still there, pretty much refusing to budge without a substantial pay-off, and Rankine is equivocating as to what to do next (whether to get involved or not), and the local MSP turned up but has nothing concrete to offer. So, no change at all then and I suspect little more than hot air will be emitted for the next ten days. That's all the time Livingston have left, before the interim liquidator is appointed and the club dies. Nothing from yesterday's meeting, from what I've read of it, seems remotely likely to change that course of events. I imagine Rankine is there because, even if the club dies, it doesn't necessarily mean his hopes (if such they are) to buy the stadium at a cut price die with the club.

Of course there remains the possibility that the "New Livi" could very well apply to fill the vacancy created by the old Livi's departure, in the SFL, if everything is delayed until 2010-11 because of timetabling issues. They will have a tough task in that scenario against Spartans, though, who off the pitch seem an SFL club in waiting.

Their first game against Edinburgh City would certainly be interesting! That said if Livi fold and their fans get together behind a new club in the EOS then they'd deserve everybody's support.

But even if they have no intention of settling smaller existing debts, there are three they simply cannot walk away from- the council, who now seem determined to pursue the matter in the courts, HMRC, and the police. At an estimate that's half a million quid. Has anyone got that lying around to put into a serially failing business like Livingston, and then live with the 99.9 % possibility that they'll never see a penny of it again? I doubt it. Edited to add- there's quite an interesting article in today's Scottish Tory suggesting a mass exodus is needed at Almondvale. The council's rather desperate strategy is to hope a white knight turns up in the next 13 days before the liquidator is appointed. The council are footing the bill for the safety certificate work, in the hope that senior football survives "in some form" at Almondvale. That could mean EOS to be honest- and it's so late in the day that any new Livi wouldn't kick off until 2010-11. Mass Exodus Needed at Almondvale

winding up his affairs in Scotland and heading back to the MLS?

The latest drivel on Livi Lions ahead of Saturday's meeting, is for a united fans group to "call for a vote" for Massone to stand down and to have it unanimously adopted by those present. It doesn't seem to have occurred to the poor dears that Massone doesn't have to take any notice of such a vote, and that, without a pay off, he isn't going anywhere- at least until the liquidators have done their work and there's no club left. You really couldn't make it up.