Ever the Optimist

Only of course if they cannot turn their assets into cash. For example a portion of a car park.

So if Livingston have indeed withdrawn from the league, how much do you think we could buy the stadium for. After alll it is a bit of a white heffalump now for WLC. And as WLC like to help out football clubs then they could always just gift it to Ayr. In all seriousness, what does everyone think, again I stress IF Livi have withdrawn, will happen regards the incumbant team next year. Does anyone see a Pheonix arising in West Lothian. After all I can't imagine the council wanting an unused stadium, and it is a way of Livingston paying absolutely nothing at all to creditors and starting from scratch with a better stadium than all the rest of the applicants. Or will the stadium just be turned into flats.

Here's a few. He who laughs last and all of that Yet a league above Livingston It would be great to think that "GIRFUY" would have been the actual words used by Longmuir. I wonder if VikingTon's Dancing shoes are polished up yet?

So will the three amigos appeal, or will they walk. If they do appeal(Do they have a right of appeal?) I think this is the beginning of the real end for the club. I wonder if certain gloaters who were prevalant last week will still be gloating now. I'm away to shed some tears.

Excuse my ignorance, but can someone explain how any decision will be made, or more accurately, who makes it. As I understand There is a committee of six(?) people who will sit down and decide Livingston's future. Is this committee acting on instructions from the 29 clubs or do they have powers to do as they see fit?

I agree with the first statement, but most businesses sign up to member bodies who have rules that the businesses have to adhere to. ABPI(Pharmaceuticals) NHBC(housebuilders) CORGI(Gas Installation) etc.

Don't worry about it. The only apologies should be ours for letting that man be involved with a football club in the first place.

So what exactly are football clubs(who are fortunate enough still to be able to borrow) borrowing against? Not even the ridiculous business practices of the financial institutions over the last few years would give football clubs money without guarantees. So they must be borrowing against an asset in some way shape or form. You are right. It is the supermarket that chooses to sell below cost, but it is most definitely the producer/supplier(the companies I have worked for supply direct to the supermarkets) that absorbs the cost of any special offer, BOGOF promotion etc. And as I said before if the producer doesn't like it they lose the business of that supermarket. And in supermarkets the eye-level products are usually the higher priced premium products as they have the biggest profit margin.

You are right. What indeed goes around comes around. Indeed with livingston failure to pay debts comes round and round again. It's an interesting analogy to use with the supermarkets one which I'm afraid is totally wrong. As Yoss pointed out the food producers pay for the loss leaders, and if the food producers don't like it the supermarkets go elsewhere for their products. Even massive multinationals such as Coca-Cola, Mars, Nestle etc have to dance to the supermarkets tune. Tesco is a multi billion pound profit organisation using ruthless business practices. Sainsbury's, Morrison's et al use identical business methods. As business models go, they are perfect and will always make money. When it comes to small businesses again, yes it takes borrowing via a bank or an investor to start up, but again as Yoss pointed out you have to be able to prove that you have a sustainable business to merit the loan or investment. Howeever should that plan go tits up your business ceases to exist. It has been pointed out several times on this thread that it is a crime in this country to run a business that is insolvent, so in the real world in this scenario, the business ceases to exist. So let me use a couple of analogies of my own from the real world. If you rent a property you pay rent. If you don't pay the rent eventually you are evicted. If you are a business and you don't pay HMRC they will chase you and if you can't afford to pay the taxman he comes down hard on you and shuts you down and even sometimes sends you to jail depending on the manner of the non payment. Do you see where I'm coming from? Every taxpayer has been shafted by Livingston as they will no doubt have their repayments dramatically slashed to WLC and HMRC. And I fall into the taxpayer bracket so therefore I am p'd off. I pay my taxes and when I see someone not paying them I see an injustice. Just one final point from your rant. Yes a lot of football clubs have borrowed over the years, but what you seem to forget is that they are all borrowing against assets. What have Livingston been borrowing against? Very few clubs are insolvent as they usually own a large chunk of land that can be sold off if the debts become too much. Also you seem to miss the point that many clubs...not all I grant you...mine included have paid every penny they owed. In our case it was about £350k. We struggled for several years, and now we are on a decent footing. All done without the need of administration. Just a shame not every football club can do the same.

The simple answer to that question is that footballing history does not matter before 1995, as plenty of Livingston FC sympathisers are proving. Football started when Livingston FC were created. I guess that means, on the flip side that football in Scotland won't exist when the increasingly likely winding up order arrives.

There you go again. History never happened. Is it something the breed into you up in West Lothian...short memories. Aw shucks...you've just made my day. Life suddenly is worth living.

I would like to think you are being deliberately arrogant with that post, but somehow I doubt it. That drivel is the sole reason why I have despised the concept of Livingston FC from the outset. Nothing to do with envy, everything to do with the arrogant attitude. It's well known that my club has won nothing in 100 years except lower league titles, and our nearest neighbours even remind us of this fact constantly, WFAANW and all that, but it is my club, my passion and I would never ever change it, and as we've spent the last five years in the wilderness(31 years if you consider the last time we were in the top league) and I still go on a regular basis says how envious of other clubs I am. (BTW during that period we repaid the taxman a huge sum) If I was so envious of other clubs I'd toddle off to Glasgow to watch football and sneer at all the 'diddy' clubs and harp on about their jealousy, envy and bitterness. It's interesting you go on about memories. When it comes down to it, we will all have our memories of our clubs, talk about them on the terraces or in the stands on a Saturday and know that at some point we will have some more. If it ever came down to it and Ayr(or any other club for that matter) were in this position that Livingston FC find themselves in there would be a hardcore group of fans, far larger than 100 in number who wouold save the club. Perhaps it is you that is envious and are so in the knowledge that at Livingston FC this will never happen. No supporters, just a string of shady businessmen looking for a quick buck, while the rest of your support look for other things to entertain themselves with on a Saturday. It's also very interesting to note your last comment An absolutely unbelievable comment from a person who supports Livingston FC. Do I need to mention Meadowbank. Of course there are other issues such as the moans from the Livingston FC faithful wrt other clubs stealing your best players for ridiculous sums. Again do I need to mention Andrews, Tosh etc I would actually liken Livingston FC to the Khmer Rouge and their policy of Year Zero. A quote from Wiki: Fits in perfectly really.

If Mr Sainsbury, or Mrs Asda comes along and offers several million pounds for the land, then make no mistake the ground will be bulldozed. WLC, just the same as any 'cash strapped' council don't care what's there as long as they can get some money from it. I'm not saying it will happen but it could. It has been said on this thread before that the rank and file Livingston supporter has sneered at the rest of Scottish football for the last 14 years. In that same period the rest of Scottish football has told the rank and file Livingston supporter that one day it will all go tits up. When you started paying £3k a week to the likes of Scott Crabbe, chasing the mythical pot of gold that is the SPL then it was only ever going to end up in one scenario. When you got there and realised the pot of gold didn't exist the situation has only got a whole lot worse. But the point that is being made is that the rank and file Livingston fan has accepted this over the years. The simple way to have sorted it out would have been to vote with your feet and your wallets and change for the better would have happened. But instead the rank and file livingston supporters have behaved like sheep and/or emus. What totally bemuses me about the whole financial mess is that Livingston did this without having to shell out several millions of pounds on a stadium. Had your club had to do this then Livingston would have been defunct many moons ago. That thread on LiviLions to me sums up exactly what the attitude of the rank and file Livingston fan has been like. There seems to be this fantasy land where nothing will ever go wrong and regardless of how desperate the situation is, the world will get better. Anyone who thinks that Livingston will come out of this with Massone on board is in serious need of psychiatric help. I agree with you LLD I don't think it is a completely hopeless position the club finds itself in, but it's not far off it. Your club is in danger of eviction, has no electric(or has it been paid now?) a list of unpaid creditors as long as your arm, (surely it won't be long until the vatman comes calling), a chairman who has a season ticket for the sherriff court, staff who on a regular basis don't get paid on time, danger of SFL sanctions over the late wages and probably a transfer embargo coming etc, etc, and yet some people still think that the club has a future under current conditions. Livingston FC has been an experiment that has failed spectacularly. For my own selfish reasons I wan't Livington to survive this season, but as each day the situation gets more and more surreal, it ain't gonna happen.

Why bother when all you weedgies are just going to pollute them on the 8th August This whole Livi situation reminds me of an episode of Soap. "Confused you will be..after you've watched this weeks episode of Livi" There was a 10 minute clip on the beeb website halfway down the page. Massone Interview He can't look the interviewer in the eye. First sign of a man who isn't telling the truth. I have no time for Livi and can't help feeling that this has been coming to them for years, but even I am beginning to feel some sympathy for them. This is the most bizarre situation I can ever recall in Scottish football. Where and when will it all end?

Could be apt for the next Livi board meeting too