Gaspode
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Posts posted by Gaspode
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I think you are being optomistic Gas - fine in already at maximum.
leaves 3 possible outcomes
the original panel said 2 of those were too severe - leaves the only choice of Cup ban unfortunately
When you start to rely on Record or mail it's when I know you're talking pish
That was before they went and stuck 2 fingers up at the judicial panels and to the SFA by running to the CoS. Now there seems to be alot more anger boiling up towards the cheating b'stards.
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Empty day unless No8. comes along to teach us
Still plenty to talk about, after all today is June 1st which means Rangers players go back to full pay and can trigger clauses in their contracts with the admin to leave for 25% of their true value. Running costs will have just sky rocketed again.
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I don't mean to be negative here but the thread now seems to have arrived at a effectively accepted fact that the tribunal is going to suspended or expel Rangers. What is this based on, statement-wise?
Based on the fact that expulsion from the Scottish Cup would be too lenient and a fine would be a complete waste of time with them being in administration, then there are only 2 other options suspension or expulsion.
With anger at Rangers in Scottish football at boiling point, the SFA has moved closer to booting the beleagured club out of the game. (The Daily Record)
The Ibrox club, must either accept the original 12-month transfer ban or risk being banned form Scottish football. (The Daily Mail)
Just a few quotes that are being branded about.
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According to the balance sheet posted by Welsh Bairn on page 1331 D&P are due £3M... only 6 times more than the £500,000. Other necessary legal and profession fees push up the total admin costs.
So it seems the BBC are wrong.
Yes - but on the page showing the costs for various outcomes CVA has admin total at £5.5million - I assume the BBC are using these figues (ie: the total bill, rather than the bill so far).
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Does anyone know if Rangers can ignore the CoS ruling themselves and choose to take the 12 month transfer embargo (if the SFA allow them to)?
That's the only way I can see them getting out of this without a suspension - but then you have to consider an added punishment for taking the case to the CoS as well.
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11 times is around 10 times. right beside it in fact. also the meter is always running so an accurate total won't be possible until it's all over and done with.
what is the point of that poster acting like he is some crackshot investigator because the rangers admin guy said 10 times rather than 11?
I think the point the OP was making was that it was the Rangers Admin Guy who can't count. The BBC said it was around 10 times the original amount at £5.5 million (£500k in the e-mail).
Duff & Duffer went on to say
The BBC has also got its figures wrong when stating our fees are now more than 10 times this amount.Where I'm from £5.5million is definitely more than 10 times £500k so the BBC got it's figures right. Duff & Duffer are obviously implying that their fees are not £5.5million.
Edit: Craigkillie beat me to it.
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This could be hopeful. He seems to be saying that the SPL will be able to treat any Cheating Tax Dodgers FC newco as a new case under these rules. Therefore the SPL will be able to impose any of the 18 new sanctions available to them when/if CTD FC apply as a newco.
There are two caveats though. Firstly, it's the Cockwomble, so I don't actually believe a word he says. Secondly the 18 brand new, shiny sanctions could include a hard stare and a 'gonnae no do that again pal'.
It had the added bonus of pissing off Green, who doesn't want to put his money where his mouth is until he knows exactly what sanctions he's dealing with.
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STV - Prospective Rangers owner seeks Scottish FA talks to prevent FIFA action
Prospective Rangers owner Charles Green says he is seeking an urgent meeting with Scottish FA chief Stewart Regan to prevent FIFA from intervening in a dispute between the two organisations.
A judge ruled the punishment was “unlawful” and not permissible based on the Scottish FA’s rulebook, despite a clause in the articles of association saying the relevant appeals panel could use its discretion to impose any sanction it saw fit.
“I want to have talks with Stewart Regan to find a way out of this for the good of Scottish football,” Green told the Scottish Sun.
“There is a balancing act here. We accept Rangers should be punished for the sins of the past. I am not disputing that, the SFA have an obligation to do that.
“But I have to stress that the fans of Rangers, administrators and myself feel the initial penalty given to the club was too harsh.
“Now there has to be a solution and a way out that doesn’t cause carnage for the game in Scotland.”
With the Scottish FA essentially left with no choice but to impose some form of sanction on Rangers, Green is eager to stave off talk of a possible suspension or expulsion from Scottish football for the club he is looking to purchase.
“There has been talk that if the SFA appeal to Lord Carloway who rubber-stamped the original decision, then Rangers could be booted out of football for 12 months — or even for good,” he said.
“If everyone steps back from the understandable emotions of this for a second I can’t believe anyone who loves the game in Scotland wants that.
“I want to speak with Stewart Regan to try and find the right path for Rangers and the game as a whole in this country.”
Surely Stewart Regan has 2 ideal excuses here -
1) - that he has no influence over the independent panel who decided the previous judgement and will review it and
2) - that given RFC decided to go down the CoS route the judgement points out that they MUST ONLY use the punishments that they have available and not make one up.
Exit stage left for Green me thinks!
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I see FIFA Vice President Jim Boyce is quoted as saying:-
Meanwhile, Boyce also made it clear that if Rangers are expelled by the SFA they could not move to join another association.
He said: “I’ve read this rubbish for years that Rangers and Celtic could play in England. Under UEFA and FIFA rules this simply can’t happen.”
(Daily Record)
So if the SFA do suspend or expell Rangers they will be well and truly fecked!!
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but unfair on Gilmour.
The rest will help in the paperback version of:-
'The P&B guide to the rangers liquidation.'
Standing up against Rangers cheating B'stards.
Spineless B'stard.
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I expect the CVA to be rejected only to have another improved CVA to go out ! and guess what only after the new season has started and the gers have bought season tickets.Green will then add the season ticket money and the fire sale player proceeds towards the new improved CVA.The stupid gers fans will be paying to make Green money while he takes the credit.
AFAIK Rangers cannot sell season tickets while still in administration - something to do with taking money for games that there is no guarantee will take place -if they were to do this and then go into liquidation Haudit and Daudit would be liable for refunding all the season ticket holder money and I somehow doubt they'd be up for that.
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It was said last night that the main creditors HMRC and Ticketus have the right to ask for more time to consider the CVA offer, surely this then screws up Green's timescale for introducing a NEWCO in time for the season commencing.
It was mentioned on Newsnight that these 2 main creditors would surely need to know the exact details of all pending cases which may increase the CVA pot or decrease the CVA pot before making a judgement on whether to accept or decline the CVA offer.
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Estimated funds available for creditors £4,967,284 of which it seems to me, 3m CVA costs will come out, leaving just under 2m, but is this including or excluding the administrators 3m fees?
I think the admins fees have already been deducted by that stage Marrez - but it all depends on the secured or preferred creditors making a claim against the funds - I think there are 4 including Whyte, Close, Sport Scotland and someone else. No monies left as far as I can see, either way.
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I had no idea Green's money was in the form of a LOAN!!! What a crook (or should that be Crock?) and they're only getting the money of the sanctions don;t make it any jarder for them to remain in the current leagues and competitions? WTF?
The Offer Letter is confidential between Sevco and the Company, but the principal terms are as follows:4.20.1 In addition to the £200,000 referred to in Paragraph 4.19, Sevco agrees to advance to the Company the sum of £8,300,000;
4.20.2 £8,300,000 will be available for draw down by the Company no later than 31 July 2012, but only once certain conditions (the ―Conditions‖) are satisfied;
4.20.3 The Company will repay the Loan together with interest on it on or before 31
December 2020;
The relevant Conditions of the Offer Letter for the purposes of this document include the following:
4.22.6 all consents or other requirements of the SPL and SFA having been obtained or complied with so that Rangers Football Club can continue to participate in such
domestic leagues and competitions as it currently participates in.
Am I reading this bit correctly? Any money coming in goes to SERVCO/Green but any costs for running for the next 3 months come out of the CVA account - expected at £3 million? Again WTF?
For the avoidance of doubt, the proceeds of all sums due from the SPL together with any broadcasting monies payable to the Company will be payable to the Company but for the benefit of Sevco (in the event that this Proposal is approved and the Loan drawn down) and shall be Excluded Assets.5.12 The SPL season has finished and as a result, the Company‘s trading revenue has dropped sharply. The Company must still continue to trade, and in particular it must continue to pay its players, to remain as a going concern. As such, the Company will incur the CVA Trading Costs. It is unclear at the date of this Proposal the period over which the CVA Trading Costs will be incurred and therefore a definitive figure cannot be provided at present. It is estimated that, if the loan is drawn down on or around mid July 2012, the CVA Trading Costs may be in the region of £3,000,000.5.13
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Rangers are not being punished for 'a decade of institutionalized cheating'...This punishment is solely for the non payment of tax and football debts by Rangers during Craig Whytes time at the club.
Rangers have still to be found guilty of 'a decade of institutionalized cheating'..Then they will have another punishment waiting for them.
Don't think for 1 minute i don't think Rangers should be punished...Of course they should and i even posted earlier The Rangers defence that they didn't realise the extent of Whytes financial cheating was nonsense. I wouldn't have posted it on here but i knew months ago that Whyte was simply refusing to pay any outside contractors. The people who put in the PA system were threatening to take it back out if they weren't paid. It was obvious he was taking the club into administration from day 1. He is a liar and a crook and i hope at some stage he has slipped up and does jail time...of course he wont because these slippery b*****ds never do!!
A wee bed each for Murray and Whyte, how cosy!!
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Too many cocks being sucked for that outcome I'm afraid.
Yeah plenty of cock sucking but if the SPL and SFA don't apply the rules for this little outing at the Court of Session then I'm sure FIFA or UEFA will apply pressure to make sure Rangers are dealt with properly.
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Is this quote from QC Richard Keen not utter bollocks:-
Mr Keen said an appeal tribunal held to review the original SFA decision had heard the suggestion that Rangers had a squad of more than 40 players. However, he said 25 of those players were aged 18 or under.
Pretty sure Rangers have more than just 15 players over the age of 18 surely.
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Just been listening to Paul Clark on Radio Scotland
"It's too early to state a pence in the pound value" (since they don't know the outcome of the litigation against CW & his lawyers)
Thought that was the whole point of a CVA? How can you even issue a CVA without setting a minimum amount each creditor will receive?
This entire administration is total bonkers.
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On another note If SDM made £6.3million through EBTs why does he not pay the tax back instead of Rangers. At 40% that would be £2.5million in tax. He profited not Rangers.
Apologies if this has been covered in the intervening pages (I'm still catching up since last night).
Rangers did profit from this - taking the example above, the employee pays tax and NI contributions, the employer also pays Employer NI contributions - someone estimated earlier that the amount on Employer NI alone on the £50millon paid into the trust works out at around £14million.
Even if you assume that the employee should pay back the Tax and NI that he gained from not paying (which is rubbish as the employer is responsible for deductions before payment in this country) RFC still gained by not paying the Employer contributions.
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Am I the only one who didn't swallow the 'prince Albert' bit? (no jokes please, too obvious).
I thought it much more likely that Ellis was making this up to make it look like he had a genuine reason for introducing Whyte to the board - he came across as a right slimy character & I thought he was just using this to make himself appear in a better light (Gee, look folks, he duped me too!)
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From today's Telegraph.....more bad news for the Bears
New blow for Rangers with threat of SPL sanctionsRangers have suffered a second body blow in the space of 24 hours with the confirmation on Thursday that any newco would face sanctions from the Scottish Premier League should the ruling body’s ongoing investigation into alleged non-disclosure of payments to players find against the beleaguered Glasgow giants.
Club in crisis: Rangers have suffered a second body blow in the space of 24 hours
The SPL’s chief executive, Neil Doncaster, disclosed to newspaper reporters that their legal team are currently studying every contract issued to players by Rangers since the formation of the elite division in 1998 and 2010.
It covers some of the same ground as Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs’ case against the club for the alleged misuse of Employee Benefit Trusts. HMRC claim that the scheme, introduced by former owner Sir David Murray, amounts to tax evasion and a verdict from the top-tier tax tribunal (which could rule Rangers to be liable for up to £75 million in unpaid tax plus penalties) is imminent.
On Wednesday Rangers lost an appeal to the Scottish Football Association’s independent tribunal, which upheld the original punishment of a 12-month transfer embargo and a fine of £100,000 for breaching their articles of association.
The news for the consortium fronted by former Sheffield United chief executive Charles Green then took a turn for the worse when Doncaster revealed that any sporting penalties imposed by the authorities on the club as it currently exists would be passed on to a new entity.
“You would expect the football club to take with it responsibility for anything which emerged from that investigation,” said the latter.
“It will take some time and, ultimately, it’s being done by our lawyers. They will bring the case forward to us and the SPL board when they can do so.
“How long will it take? How long has the HMRC case taken? These things take as long as they take. These are complicated matters, far more complicated than people might think.
“The issue will be; have any of our rules been breached? If there is a prima facie case that they have then we will act accordingly.
“The rules are there and all clubs are treated equally under the current rules. The investigation is going on in accordance with the rules set down at various stages of the SPL’s history.
“There is only one rule within our whole set of rules where the breach has a pre-determined sanction: if you go into administration the sanction is a 10-point sporting penalty, although perhaps that will be increased.
“All the rest of the other rule breaches have 18 potential sanctions, unlimited in scope. Whoever makes the decision on any disciplinary matter, be it the board or an independent commission, there is no set sanction in place.”
Doncaster, though, believes that the newco option has become unfairly discredited in the media since Rangers were plunged into administration over three months ago.
“Whenever I speak to people about the distinction between a Company Voluntary Agreement and a newco what I keep being told is that it’s simply wrong that any club should be able to create a newco and shed debt - as if a CVA doesn’t lead to the shedding of debt,” he said.
“Administration is the protection the court gives you when you can’t pay your debts. There are two ways out of that; one is a newco, one is a CVA.”
Green was at Hampden on Thursday to be grilled by Doncaster and the SFA’s chief executive, Stewart Regan. “When we offered to buy the club we realised what the potential was,” said Green.
“Last night’s announcement was an option we’d considered when we bought the club.”
Asked whether he was considering a legal action against the SFA for dismissing their appeal, he replied: “We’re discussing all the options that are available to the club."
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Oh FFS, it's rhyming slang - "Teddy Bears" for "Gers".
....but to get it right, you have to say it with that Weegie accent - not 'bears', more 'berz'.
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Couldn't help laugh at the rantings of some Rangers twat in the Evening Times today in response to last nights appeal hearing:-
THURSDAY 17 MAY 2012 TEXT SIZE Fans' chief: Rangers must fight SFA ban to ends of the earth
Alison McConnell
Football Writer
RANGERS fans' chief Andy Kerr today urged the club to fight the legalities of the SFA's transfer embargo to the ends of the earth.
And in a stark warning, Kerr also insisted that the Ibrox support will mobilise themselves to ensure the ramifications of the ban will be felt by ALL SPL clubs.
Kerr said: "There is widespread anger among the Rangers fans, as you can well imagine. We will take a stand now."
Last night's decision by a three-man appeal body to uphold the original punishment of a 12-month transfer embargo on players over the age of 18 has been met by a furious response from the Rangers support and Kerr has warned that they will not take the decision lying down.
Rangers' administrators were today weighing up their options but look certain to take legal action against the SFA, possibly in civil courts or the Court or Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Switzerland.
Several first-team stars have cut-price get-out clauses in their contracts after agreeing to wage cuts and, should they activate them and leave, Gers would be unable to sign replacements. Already, Everton are eyeing a swoop for Steven Naismith, who has a £2million trigger release.
The Rangers Supporters' Assembly will now:
*Lobby the club to withdraw from the Scottish Cup next season.
*Plan to boycott all away games.
*Put pressure on sponsors.
*Call for Rangers players to withdraw from the Scotland squad to face the USA in Florida later this month.
Kerr added: "We feel that while our circumstances are unique, they are not exceptional, yet the SFA seem to be focused on making some kind of an example here.
"There have been other clubs this season who have not been able to pay the wages of their players, yet there has been very little in the way of punishments handed out for that. Ultimately, we have to do what we think is the best course of action now.
"We met when the SFA first announced the transfer embargo and had preliminary discussions about what to do. But at the time we felt we were jumping into it too quickly, and we wanted to wait and see whether or not common sense would surface at an appeal.
"That hasn't been the case and the club need to take this fight all the way. They have to challenge this tooth and nail.
"The body of opinion is definitely behind taking the players out of the national team, although personally I would have to say that I am cautious about pushing for such a thing because it isn't particularly fair that the international career of a player is hampered because of this situation.
"But at the same time, if Allan McGregor or Lee Wallace or Steven Whittaker get injured when they are playing for Scotland, how do we replace them?"
Kerr also believes that the whole of Scottish football will be punished because of the embargo.
He added: "When Rangers signed Steven Naismith from Kilmarnock, the sale went a long way to ensuring that the Rugby Park club did not go into administration.
"There are lots of players in the SPL that I am sure Rangers will have been looking at, and the bottom line is that buying these guys from other Scottish clubs benefits the game.
"If you take that out for a year then I am sure there will be one or two clubs who will feel it.
"The Rangers support need to do everything within their power to make a stand now.
"We are bitterly disappointed at the decision to uphold the embargo ... but it is not finished yet."
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I'm sure some character known as bennet (or is it bunnet) came on to issue a blood-curdlingly terrifying threat of disruption to the cup final on Saturday
Forgot about that Tosser. He seriously needs to speak to someone as he quite obviously has lots of issues.
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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
Jane Lewis @JaneLewisSport
#Fifa confirm that they've spoken to the #Sfa over the #Rangers situation. Talks will continue and they hope to release a statement today.