TheFarPost

TRUST Q&A BEFORE THE DUNFERMLINE GAME -- come and talk about the stadium relocation. Starting around 1.50pm in the Community Suite... with the usual bar service running throughout! More here: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2018/01/04/trust-qa-before-dunfermline-game/ Also, please join or renew membership of the trust, to make our collective voice even stronger!

The Dumbarton Reporter has a rather excitable headline on its front page this week, and another full page inside on the Young's Farm campaign. For the avoidance of doubt (and to relieve the confusion of others), this is where the trust stands -- positive, open, questioning, and concerned above all for the security and flourishing of our club. So be assured: the trust position can only change substantially if our members want it to change, by a democratic decision.

Trust letter, making it clear that members have the final say, here: http://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/15799758.An_open_mind_on_ground_move/ (There's also a response to the ET story up as well).

No one sane could consider it a 'good idea'... the issue is (as always) who benefits from holding it at this inconvenient time, and who decides? Not the fans, for sure. They were never in the decision-making equation, you can bet.

Thanks, Moonster. Good points and questions. Some quick comments back... 1. and 2. Ian Wilson was removed from the DFC board, and we were told that from now on his function would be 'back room' and 'technical'. But it has become clear in recent weeks that he is playing a *much* bigger role than we had understood. We are presently clarifying this with Brabco, as he has been hostile towards the trust, condescending to fans and alienating towards others in the past. We'd like to know what his and Brabco's intentions are regarding his role into the future - and the place of the trust, too. As far as Brabco and the board is concerned -- the current rep is Callum Hosie, but his participation is limited by ill health. You are right, it is noticeable and curious that neither the chairman nor any DFC director is quoted, and Chris Stainton is not on the board (though I actually think it would be helpful if he was, at least for a time, as he's been good to deal with and understands what needs to be done). I have no doubt that the board will back the application, but the disconnect here is evident and concerning. We've long argued that everybody ought to be round a table talking about this. 3. What we've said, based on our knowledge so far and on discussion with fans, is that we recognise that a sustainable community stadium development could be a major boon, and that if it happens we want fans and the trust to be fully part of it. That's been interpreted by The Evening News as "fans support", and we've responded by pointing out that the trust has not formally endorsed anything, and could only do so through a vote of our members. The trust board has a mandate to engage, negotiate and advocate for our concerns in the way we have been doing. We are seeking further assurances from Brabco moving forward. More to follow on that... 4. If we stay there are challenges (not least financial ones), but we think they could be handled. That said, we shouldn't be remotely complacent about them or the heavy lifting that might be involved. I've commented more on that here: 5. On the offshore issue, Chris Stainton has been working on getting the club owned onshore, and we are told that there will be an announcement on that shortly. That's a good achievement by us in pressing it, and Chris has kept his word. We'll naturally scrutinise the outcome carefully. The other issue that needs much more clarity is stadium ownership. More generally, I agree that more progress can and should have been made, though I'm not sure any of it is 'easy', even with a plan! I know CS recognises the situation, and there has been much more understanding of where fans are coming from in their concerns from him and from the new development consultant than we ever had in the past. We'll make use of these points you've raised (and others from PnB and other forums), and discuss them face-to-face with Brabco early in the New Year. There are big issues to settle, for sure.

I don't think most people are going to be naively swayed by hype, and the council will have certain pretty key, gritty and well defined planning issues at the forefront of their minds when they make their decision, not promo videos. I'm not saying this stuff doesn't have some influence, and I get your point, but I don't think we should over-worry it. It's *planning* questions which will be the real determinants in January. (The FB reach is pretty small so far, too. That said, deleting reasonable comments is absolutely not on, and we'll raise that firmly with the parties involved. )

Couldn't agree more... that's what we need to be working for. Which also involves getting back to the work we as a trust were beginning to do four years ago (before the stadium question came back and really started to soak up time and attention) - working on a plan for how the club should move forward. Clarity on the planning decision would help in all this, because then at least we know what we're dealing with. The fact that it has been hanging over us unresolved for years hasn't helped anybody. Equally, a functioning DFC board working in partnership with fans through the trust (and the CIC vehicle we are creating) could make a massive difference.

That's how those of us in negotiation over this see things. There is real potential for beneficial change (not least in the way that the club is governed and run as a football, community and commercial enterprise) - but there are also plenty of potential pitfalls and snags, which we are keeping a very sharp eye out for. Whether we stay or whether we go, what will be needed to make things work for the club is investment, good governance, real fan engagement, sound business planning, culture change (a lot more goodwill all round), community partnerships, and the ability to create much more of a buzz around our brilliant little club.

The reason they matter right now (not just in the future) is that they are prospective customers for facilities, which is a significant part of the business model for making the development work for the club.

Actually, though they obviously have a primary interest in a return on investment, the evidence of our discussions over recent months is that Brabco do care what DFC fans think. That's because they know that the backing of supporters and the trust is crucial to making any new development work. Regarding local teams - yes, they'll look out for themselves. But if DFC is to do more than survive in the future, really good partnerships with local sports clubs, schools, community groups and businesses is vital. Commercial development and community development need each other. The trust has been pressing within the club for more initiative, openness, creativity and engagement on this front for years. If local groups have "absolutely f**k all to do with the club" that's a huge loss both to them and to us in the long run, and it needs to change. The fact that this is now, belatedly, being recognised is one of the most positive signs in all this. To build support for our club we need to go out there and win people over, not tell them that we don't give a fig about them and don't expect them to give a fig about us! https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/the-sonstrust-and-dfc-stadium-proposals/

Estimates do very, but there are not insignificant oncoming costs involved in staying where we are, together with the need to strengthen our commercial base in order to survive, and the question of how the owners recover their investment. That's for sure. So there are risks attached to staying, as well as raises attached to moving. That is something that it is important for all of us to understand. Several months ago, as was reported at the October public meeting, we started to get more far more engagement on business and sustainability plans. We have seen and have been able to comment on an initial report on costs of both moving and staying, and income streams for a new stadium development. Around six weeks ago another consultant (mentioned in our latest statement) was brought in -- someone with a good track-record and a real commitment to community sports development. Things are not as far ahead on this as we would want (or as they should be) on the business modelling, but we've definitely seen progress. Whichever way things go regarding relocation, the priority for the trust has to be the sustainability of the club. In the meantime, those of us given responsibility for negotiating on all of this (myself, Alan Findlay, Stevie Lynch and Alistair Thorn) will call the shots as we see them, make sure the important questions are faced, take our steer from our members, act as responsible partners and stakeholders in DFC, and use every ounce of influence we have to try and get the right decisions taken. https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/the-sonstrust-and-dfc-stadium-proposals/

The weight of the 'could' in our comment was evidently lost on them. Plus they just relied on the press release, and didn't look at the context for the quote on our trust website, which says: "The Sonstrust will go on engaging positively with the club and its owners on any and all plans for the future — and seeking the necessary assurances about our own role as key stakeholders. "The trust’s priority will continue to be to reflect the concerns of fans, and to ensure that any development, on a new site or on the current one, is appropriate and fully benefical for the club we love. "We want Dumbarton FC to have a thriving future, with fans and the community at its heart. A sustainable community stadium development could create major opportunities for us and for the local area, which we want to be fully part of." https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/stadium-project-info/ Of course we'd be crazy not to recognise the potential in what is now being proposed, the decent community consultation that's started to happen (albeit far too late in the day), plus the need to be on board a train that could really heading somewhere -- rather than the buffers. That's was what Brian's quote was intended rightly to reflect. That doesn't and can't mean for one minute that we've given up on the tough questions that need to be addressed up to and beyond the planning decision on 31st January. We'll see where we get with our next discussions with Brabco in January... but any 'official position' from the trust would have to depend on a vote of our members, based on what we are able to put to them. We have that in hand.

Following recent press coverage, and reaction on social media to the launch of the ‘Thumbs Up for Young’s Farm’ campaign, people have been asking if the Sonstrust could say more about the issues involved. I'm happy to do so. Here's what can be said at present: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/the-sonstrust-and-dfc-stadium-proposals/ There have been a number of comments on PnB about the stadium proposal PR over the past week or so. I'll respond to those as soon as I can. Also, if you're coming to the stadium on Saturday for the Morton game, the present plan is for there to be a trust Q&A session in the Community Suite before the match - probably around 1.50pm for about 20 minutes, and open to all (of course). That will be confirmed shortly. We are currently putting together an FAQ on the stadium relocation question as it stands right now, and we'll be polling trust members early in the New Year. Fire away if there are other questions, folks. You can always drop me a PM here if you want, too. Cheers, Simon

I'm just penning a letter to the Evening Times and the Herald clarifying our position. Plus there's a statement up on the trust site: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/28/the-sonstrust-and-dfc-stadium-proposals/

Donald Anderson and Paul McLennan from Playfair Scotland Ltd are coming along to the Rock today, before the Falkirk game, with a display and leaflets about the new DFC stadium proposal and planning application: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/12/22/stadium-project-info/ Come along to the Community Suite from 1.30pm to get more information, ask questions and share your views. It's vital that fans are fully engaged! (A press release and video from the owners will be up on the DFC site from midday.)

A few clarifiers on this: 1) Following the meeting, we're working on an FAQ so that we're not reliant on 'different versions'. 2) What was said at the meeting by Roddy was that if planning permission is not granted, he would likely recommend an appeal; and by Chris that an appeal would be unlikely (because of the time and expense involved). 3) On the Golden Share, the legal opinion we have sought is in agreement that, while not optimally drafted, it can help prevent sale of the land outwith the security of the club. As you say, that can only apply if the club is in operation. 3) What was said by everybody is that there are big challenges in remaining at the Rock. The overdraft was not described as 'unmanageable' (and isn't unusual for small clubs managing the vagaries of cash-flow on slender resources). The oncoming capital costs are significant, and the lack of a sink fund is a structural weakness which needs to be addressed alongside others. 4) DFC has washed its face financially for many years, and can continue to do so with wise management - but the contingencies and need for capital have to be addressed. Moving to a new stadium with tested revenue prospects and the removal of those liabilities is one solid way forward, provided that it proves both doable and sustainable. 5) If that does not happen, other solid strategies are needed. This is something the trust is well aware of, looking at options on, will be discussing with the club, and is re-structuring itself to help meet (working to become a Community Interest Company).

You'll note that I made it quite clear that the position of the trust is, and will remain, that owners of football clubs should be publicly known - and pressed the question of who takes decisions for Brabco. We have had much more transparency from Chris, and everything that he's said to us in recent weeks (and indeed months) has checked out. What was not mentioned last night is that the 'offshore vehicle' that Brabco has used is in the process of being wound up. That was also something we pushed hard for, and to which we've had a positive response. The overall situation is not entirely as we would want, but the direction of travel has been far better of late, and we will continue to make sure that our interests and those of the club (which are ultimately the same) are pressed solidly.

This (and the rest of your post) is all spot on, BSF. There are going to be big changes moving forward, whichever way things go on the new stadium. And the tax and legal issues need to be handled clearly and rigorously. We're on the case. Thanks vm to everyone who came last night - sixty of us on a miserably wet midweek evening! Please do keep the questions and comments coming. There will be more on the trust site shortly, and we're fixing another Trust board meeting this month to pursue all the key issues. Absolutely everything has to be measured against what will deliver the most sustainable future for the club. We as supporters should not and will not simply be passengers in this vehicle, we need to be involved in making sure it steers in the right direction. By the end of the year we will have clarity on which way things are heading re. the stadium - and then we are going to have to get stuck in to make it work.

Yep, hoping we get a really good turnout tomorrow night! Quite a bit has moved forward -- including Ian Wilson moving out of the picture, some much more positive meetings with Chris Stainton (who is now taking the lead for Brabco), a change of Club chairman, greater determination of the issues DFC faces both staying and moving, moves toward the kind of business / commercial planning we've been suggesting for some time, and steps towards transitioning the trust itself to a membership based CIC (which would put us in a better position for an increased stakeholding in future). However, there are obviously still big questions that need to be resolved, and the coming months are going to be vital in this regard. I'm sure we can give these things a good airing tomorrow. It's important to do this with and for fans, and that's why we set up the meeting. (Apologies that I've been AWOL from PnB since early summer - mainly because of the amount of time spent liaising over stadium and club issues, and also the work I've been doing for the Scottish Football Supporters Association, both on top of my day job and other commitments.) Cheers, Simon

It can and should make a real difference. That's what we're working hard for as a trust right now. Simon

Just to say that the trust will make comment on changes in the boardroom shortly, and we're involved in discussions about where things go from here. We believe it can and should mark part of a significant step-change in relations between fans, the club and the club's owners. Simon

Afternoon, all. Sorry I've been off-duty on PnB since the end of the season... a lot of other things (like life and work!) to catch up on. But I'll skim through to look for (and register) your comments on youth football and the new stadium planning application, in particular. The trust statements on both of those crucial issues are now online at the trust website. On YDI, this is what we've said, and the pledge we've made: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/06/04/trust-response-on-youth-football/ It's also worth reading this piece for background: http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15320526.Dumbarton_disband_youth_academy_as_Project_Brave_starts_to_become_a_reality/ This is a massively disappointing situation to be in, but the pressures that led to the decision now (rather than dithering and crossing fingers) are real. Nonetheless, we think there are other ways forward for youth engagement in the future, and we'll be exploring them actively. Meantime, big questions remain about what the SFA is doing and the whole Project Brave fiasco. (I'll be raising those wearing my hat as chair of the Scottish Football Supporters Association, you can be sure). Regarding the stadium relocation planning application, our statement is here and will be relayed in the local press this week: https://sonstrust.wordpress.com/2017/06/05/stadium-relocation-planning-application/ Again, our position on this remains solid and clear. I'll continue to update over the summer, as things unfold -- and to make sure that fans' voices and issues are heard. I already have a massive stack of comments from the last consultation, and there will be more of that happening, of course. As ever, if you want to be in touch with me about any of this, drop me a PM here and I'll let you have my email address. Cheers, everyone Simon

Just thought I'd say that we're meeting again with Brabco on Saturday morning (today, I've just noted), hoping to see where their concrete planning has got to. We'll be sending a letter round to trust members and making further comment after that. Also, as a trust, we're holding almost 200 (often detailed) comments on relocation issues from fans, following the meeting with Ian Wilson and Callum Hosie last November. We'll bring those back on to the table when there are business plans - which we've been asking for some time - to look at. It's unclear at present exactly what relevance this survey and YSYH has to the realisation and sustainability of this proposed development. But we will be finding out. The best interest of the club and its fans is what the Sonstrust will always hold out for, along with rigorous scrutiny of development proposals, making fans' views heard, and active engagement with the challenges the club faces moving forward. Meanwhile, let's give the Bairns a friendly roasting... and see you at the Awards bash, which is going to be a great party! 'Aye, Simon

Here's our response (towards the end of the article) to the last Brabco statement on the club website, as covered by the Reporter - below. The Lennox version cut out most of our response: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/dumbarton-fc-bosses-pledge-focus-10314955

We had our MP in hospitality last season - Martin was very supportive of the trust and supporters, and we'll be speaking to him again soon, assuming the seat doesn't change hands... in which case it will be someone else! Same for our MSP - Jackie's been great in speaking out. We'll be in touch with the relevant elected councillors after the election this coming week. And the planning people, in particular. In relation to the proposed stadium move, you can be assured that the trust has the political, legal and media support well embedded -- to ensure that nothing happens which imperils the club.