O'Kelly Isley III
-
Posts
7,169 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Events
Gallery
Store
Blogs
Posts posted by O'Kelly Isley III
-
-
It is plausible in the sense that Stevenson will not be happy at three minute cameo sub appearances, but on what I've seen thus far that's all he's justifying. And if were a cash-strapped DFC Board member I too wouldn't be happy either as on his deal that sort of hourly rate probably takes him into Justin Bieber territory
0 -
42 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:
When you say alternative locations do you mean for houses or a football stadium?
Houses.
0 -
Invariably green belt considerations can be overcome if the business group has deep enough pockets to afford heavy legal artillery; there is currently a very high profile case under way concerning land use between Dunblane and Bridge of Allan where Judy Murray and a developer are keen to build a tennis academy and a number of high-spec and high-priced houses - expect this to be a high-octane fight between themselves and the locals as there is big money and strong resistance involved.
The Renton Road on the other hand is a shitty piece of damp real estate on which, for a variety of reasons, only modest homes would ever feature. And this is where the likes of Rose Harvie, Community Councils, local activists and club supporters like myself who are firmly opposed to Roxit have a part to play. If there was enough organised and reasoned opposition then I would seriously question why any developer or housebuilder would bust a gut and risk getting ensnared in a drawn-out legal process when there are plenty of alternative locations elsewhere.
And that's before we start to consider the financials and the (interlinked) ability of Brabco to take this proposal to a conclusion. At some point the Powerpoint love-bombing will spill over into hard reality and everyone better realise the potential risks that are involved; bitter football history of a Clydebank sort tells us that when semi-detached businessmen get involved the outcome can be traumatic - we need to ensure that DFC doesn't sleep-walk into problems for the lack of rigour and scrutiny on the part of the locals.
0 -
4 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:
Stadium statement on the os
http://www.dumbartonfootballclub.com/news/?mode=view&id=2730
Where to start...oh aye, here. That's potentially a big blow for Brabco and, given the proximity to LomondGate and Loch Lomond Shores itself I'm not surprised there has been no commercial commitments.
Oh aye and here
So that's now
retail park, stadium, pitches, hotel, restaurant, offices, conference space, 200 houses and a Robert the Bruce themed park. They are just making this up as they go along, aren't they? Just scribble out one idea and start again; I'd like an open air swimming pool, an 18 hole crazy golf course and a Jim Lister themed petting zoo.Good to see the plans will be displayed on the match day against Morton - and hopefully we'll see some Brabco folk there to answer the questions. I'll be very interested to know if there's anything going on between the owners and the Council concerning this walkway they seem to be desperate to build...surely they could build that with the stadium still in place, no?
You could get these guys to sponsor it.....
0 -
5 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:
Is that not the same guy they sent along last time? Poor guy obviously knew about planning regulations and the like, but absolutely nothing about the club nor Brabco.
It just makes me even more suspicious that, instead of simply turning up themselves, Brabco seem intent on employing people to speak on their behalf so they can appear like DFC's answer to the Stig. If they want to move our club, then they have to sell it to us - not get outsiders to do it.
If only someone with a weekly column in the Lennox was a regular outspoken critic of the stadium on here. That would redress the balance.
In all seriousness though if anyone has anything (publishable) they'd like me to mention in it this week re the stadium situation stick it on here or PM me. Every newspaper will want to know what the actual fans who buy their paper think about such a potentially massive move. I'll no doubt *borrow* inspiration from a few of the posts already up about it either way.
OK, So8, a simple question - I'm interested to know if a firm, legally binding agreement is currently in place to enable purchase of the land at Youngs Farm, in part or in total, from Chivas Brothers by Brabco or their agents ?
0 -
2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:
What I don't really get is how Brabco hope to make money on the housebuilding side of things.They arn't going to build the houses themselves so they will have to sell the land to the housebuilder. They don't own the land at the moment so if a housebuilder wanted to build there why would they not just buy the land themselves ?
One of a host of conundrums surrounding this whole idea. But the modus operandi is beginning to emerge; having been rebuffed on the retail and leisure concept Brabco is now pursuing a sweetheart deal in which housing permission at Dalmoak is sought as a quid pro quo for freeing up the current site for the 'charrette' related stuff at the Rock. If only it were that easy Mr Brabco.
0 -
Very interesting to see the dichotomy between the 'apple pie and ice cream' tone of the Brabco Press Release and that of Simon's on behalf of the Sonstrust - very much a bracing bucket of cold water that one.
But he is absolutely right; from the original vision presented at The Abbotsford we have now moved on to Plan B, not because housing is now regarded as the better option but because the original option was demonstrably flawed. Logic would suggest that if your first idea was a bummer then you are now into choppier waters with your second, or you are even entering last-chance saloon.
There is so little detail in that Press Release that to paraphrase Theresa May, 'Relocation Means Relocation'. And someone has obviously been scraping the buzzphrase barrel - when I see phrase like 'numerous benefits to social groups' unaccompanied by any reference to a cogent and costed business plan then I'm somewhat sceptical. As I think the whole local community should be.
0 -
2 hours ago, Bring Back Paddy Flannery said:
4 days since the Record article and still the club have said nothing. Nada. f**k all.
No doubt we will hear from the Trust long before we hear anything from the club themselves, if we ever do.
It shouldn't be the Trust's job to keep us in the loop when it comes to stuff like this. The very least I'd expect is a wee article on the OS letting us know what's going on or that they can't release any details at the minute. Even a wee 5 sentences of cliche'd shite is better than nothing.
Down with this sort of thing.To be fair to the club, I'd imagine this press release was handled by the Brabco camp and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if no-one at DFC had prior notice. To recap, we have a Board of Directors who dutifully attend to the football club, and we have Brabco, a specialist removals organisation committed to relocating said football club for fiduciary gain.
Let us not conflate the two into a coordinated working entity. However, if a public consultation is announced I won't be at all surprised if Brabco again try to slough the face-to-face bit onto the local DFC Directors. If I were the latter I think I'd resist that strongly.
0 -
2 hours ago, Nowhereman said:
They might but even if they were what influence would they havePotentially quite a bit. With Gilbert's passing Brabco have no-one 'on the ground' attending to their affairs, with consequent logistical issues, and should the club Directors grow some and start to ask some direct questions things could get interesting.
I would presume that as part of the reputed consultation exercise Brabco and their Planning Consultants will be embarking on a PR charm offensive aimed at local politicians and officials. We football folk subjecting their plans, and equally important their intentions for the future of DFC, to the rigour they absolutely merit could be extremely important in influencing the decision-makers. Nodding thro a proposal deemed to be hostile by the local community is hardly clever politics.
For the record I'm not trying to paint Brabco into a corner, their track record thus far and IMO wholly unrealistic business plan can achieve that comfortably.
0 -
4 hours ago, sonsanorak said:
The bad neighbour status at the Rock has always annoyed me; we were there first so the houses were bought knowing football matches would be taking place.
The irony being that i cant imagine anyone wanting to live at dalmoak next to a football ground, but yet we hope to sell houses there?
The other side of the leven at the lomondgate would have been floodplains too I'm sure. But with the scale of that site and size of the companies involved, i imagine lomondgate has been well structured to avoid floods. Moving the flood plain perhaps toward the golf club and the renton road.
Let's nail that particular canard once and for all. The 'Bad Neighbour' line was thrown into the mix on Brabco's behalf to metaphorically take a hatchet to your own floorboards in order to justify a move to a new abode. It's one of the oldest tricks in the black propaganda handbook - the Tories are employing it right now by running down the NHS in England to facilitate wholesale privatisation - but it won't wash here as to anyone's knowledge not one resident has uttered such a phrase.
In recent seasons we've hosted Rangers, Hibs, Hearts, and the two Dundee clubs without incident. Sure, the current stadium needs serious refurbishment but you don't flit because you have a crack in the bedroom ceiling. No, this is all about a cabal of businessmen who thought they could turn a coin but are now discovering they have something unpleasant stuck to their shoes.
And So8 is entirely correct, it's now time for serious questions to be asked. Has the land at Youngs Farm been purchased from Chivas ? If not, what is the likely price ? It is inconceivable that Chivas would release it at a price well below what Brabco would subsequently need to achieve from a housebuilder, unless Chivas were embarked on the daddy of all sponsorships.
What housebuilder would see the Renton Road as being an attractive location, especially given all the new builds in this area ? And how much could be levered from the Castle Road site, taking into account the costs associated with remedial works ? Not to mention the diminution of income with a strip of land being needed to form part of the proposed new walkway from the town.
They have also admitted that a new roundabout will be required on the A82 costing circa £1.5M. That will be the same A82 which is a major Scottish trunk road, administered by a national body, and which already has two roundabouts within the approaching kilometre - are they having a laugh here ?
For Brabco read Brexit; an idea is out there but no-one really knows how to make it work, and there's a strong likelihood of pain for a lot of people. If I were a betting man I'd be advising every Sons fan to plan and prepare for a thwarted Brabco cutting, running and flogging the club to whoever rather than converting a Powerpoint presentation into bricks and mortar.
Too many pieces of the jigsaw just don't fit. And many are missing.
0 -
8 hours ago, optimistic said:
no way, should any sons fan consider relegation, yes, we are favourites, but we should all enjoy being as high up the Scottish leagues as possible, I have to agree with moonster, when he says arses need booted, it will either mean a positive outcome, or a continuation of the dross that we are seeing at the moment.
Ok111, mentioned us not being a friendly club, and i think that there is a lot in that, I've heard players over the years talking about the board not being so connected with the football side of things, and more the business side, and have a lack of connection with the players, sounds a bit of drivel, but could it be that the players come in and do the bear minimum in terms of the club and the fans?
In terms of lack of resources, could we as a club, be approaching more local businesses for sponsorship, especially the bigger ones, chivas, aggreko?, or should they be approaching us
Having tried on several occasions I can assure you that Aggreko will not consider sponsorship as DFC falls way below their level for corporate involvement and exposure. Chivas have been supportive over many years, but such has been the fawning towards them and deals agreed by club officials that I sometimes wondered exactly who was sponsoring who.
Some of the smaller local businesses certainly do their bit by taking hospitality tables for example, and none more so than Alec Couper at CDI for his stadium sponsorship. But as long as the perception of the club having the feel of being in a golf club, with too many people more eager to chivvy visitors than offer them a friendly face, persists it will continue to be difficult to attract many more sponsors than the committed.
A couple of DFC meeters and greeters at pre-match and post-match hospitality would be a no-brainer start.
0 -
1 hour ago, Homer Sandoval said:
Take a breath son, take a breath.
As I said, your passion in particular is refreshing - good to read youngsters having a real affection for their team. You support Dumbarton and as your own words above prove, following a wee team has its moments of relative glory and despair.
The present plight could be a lot worse. The win-less away run and league position could be in fourth tier, not the second, so all I'm suggesting is a bit of perspective. Nine games in the campaign have elasped, not thirty-six. A bit to go yet.
It's extremely easy to be philosophical on a quiet Wednesday, but even for the very supportive group of fans at Dumbarton last Saturday was a crossing of the rubicon and seemed to crystallise what has been slowly evident and what, left unchecked, is about to unfold.
We can always accept defeat with good grace but Ayr Utd, like several other mid-order teams already this season, just had to be committed, motivated and reasonably organised to turn us over. There are reasons for that, and that's what we're choosing to discuss and debate here.
There is a direct parallel with exactly five calendar years ago; at that time the club was able to effect remedial action but that doesn't look to be an option this time round. Those 27 remaining games are looking like a sair experience in the making - not a happy prospect
0 -
25 minutes ago, Consolidate said:
On the basis that we're already writing off this Saturday as a standard away defeat, it seems to me that the following two fixtures v Dunfermline (8th) and St. Mirren (10th) could make or break the current management team.
I expect them to get a lot more out of this group of players than what was witnessed against Ayr. Whilst I'm (very) cautiously coming round to the idea of League 1 football next season, it would be annoying to see us slip out the Championship feebly after competing so well over the last 5 years.
Make a fist of it and go down fighting.
To be honest, I was always alarmed by the early-season braggadocio of some of our posters on here re the playing squad. I've been of the opinion that it's patchy at best and that view is now being accompanied by a realisation that some guys are simply not of the quality to compete in the Championship. And the balance has never looked right.
Sure the Management team assembled the team, but on a tight(er) budget. Against that, were what funds were available invested wisely ? Like yourself, Consolidate, I don't want us to go down in the manner of 20 years ago, but on growing evidence we might not have any great say in that.
I'm thinking of the new stadium to take my mind off it
0 -
30 minutes ago, Nowhereman said:
What is it about fans and rose tinted spectacles when they reflect on crowds of days gone by. Apart from a brief period in the 1970's Dumbarton's crowds have never been great. Only a few years after our venture in the old first division in the mid seventies our crowds were back to an average of about 1000. And that was when we were challenging at the top of the second tier for promotion to the premier division. As to more recent history and in particular for Sonsteam of 08 our average attendance in 2008/09 was 722 and in 2011/12 was 660. So far this season it is 1189. Since 2001 our average attendance has only exceeded 1000 on three occasions, the last two seasons being two of those three. And our attendances in the last days of Boghead were much poorer with three and four hundred being a regular occurance. Attendances are not plummeting or diminishing and that's not splitting hairs.
The last days at Boghead saw fans watching matches in a run-down dump with precious little by way of facilities. And they coincided with playing in the bottom division of Scottish football, a combination hardly conducive to good crowds.
No-one is wearing rose-tinted specs, but days gone by are helpful in comparing just how poor the value for money is in 2016. And banging on about average attendances has got to take account of visiting supporters in order to avoid skewing the picture; in that respect our home support is almost down to the bones of its arse right now.
Tell you what, ask our Community Director what the walk-up numbers actually paying cash at the Home End have been for the last two home games - I don't know but I'd be astonished if they were in excess of 200. And as I've alluded to above, there are firm reasons for that.
0 -
3 hours ago, BallochSonsFan said:
I'm not sure that relegation, and the promise of a Dumbarton side competing at the top of the 3rd tier, would attract fans to the club. We'd all like to see more entertaining football with more goals, more shots on goal and an end to our horrific away run. Would that be enough to boost crowds, or at least to protect what we have? I'm not sure. We may well find out at the end of this season, but for me Dumbarton have a fan base right now that will be plus or minus about 50-75 fans no matter what league we play in. Relegation won't see that change. It's simply a reflection of how little the local population cares for the club and how loathe they are to actually get out and support the Sons.
Between Dumbarton, the Vale of Leven, Helensburgh and the surrounding areas we should be able to do better than around 600 fans on a good day. Looking at West Dunbartonshire and Helensburgh we've got a catchment area in excess of 105,000 people. We're getting somewhere in the region of 0.5% of the local population along on a match day. It does us no favours to be 20 miles or so from both Old Firm clubs, but we've always had that problem. Clydebank doesnt have a senior team any more. Their junior team arent exactly on fire in recent seasons and the Vale juniors aren't the draw that some of the Glasgow or Ayrshire teams are. Dumbarton are the only local football team for a large number of people and yet the number of folk who care enough to actually go to a game is minuscule.
Playing in the 2nd tier for a 5th consecutive season hasn't sparked interest amongst the local population and I doubt whether being more successful at a lower level will either. It'll make things more interesting for the folk who would go to games anyway but like most small clubs in Scotland we're stumbling towards a serious issue with our crowds. The sad fact is that clubs like Dumbarton aren't replacing fans with kids and families at a high enough rate to even keep crowds stable, never mind actually growing them. Where will the next generation of Sons fans come from?
There's a host of reasons why our support is diminishing (seeing as how Nowhereman is splitting hairs...), but the main one is probably economic. This area rates very poorly in the table of local authorities for employment and income and following the Sons has become the pursuit of the committed only - the passing trade has gone, probably forever.
Another point to note is the relationship between the public and the club (as opposed to the team itself). I've long ago formed the opinion that we are not a friendly club and occasional comments by visitors and hospitality guests bears this out; at times it's almost as if the public is a necessary inconvenience. Reputation-wise, I don't think we score well either in the local community in general and it won't be the first time that a parent has approached me concerning the latest convulsion in the youth set-up at DFC. We just seem to be in a permanent state of angst.
I've already gone over the Brabco situation and the more I think about that I fear for it. There is no logical reason for us to move anywhere - indeed the diminishing home support only reinforces this - and whilst there are undoubtedly maintenance issues around the current stadium this whole concept looks increasingly flawed.
Bizarre perhaps to suggest it, but perhaps only relegation will bring some sanity to bear in terms of the ground issue, entry prices and most importantly, the greedy cash demands of many mediocre Scottish footballers and their agents.
That last point is crucial too; the public has increasingly seen thro the' kiss-the-badge-then f***-off' shit and are equally fed-up of the annual scrabbling around to even put a team on the park. Another reason why only the anoraks like us who post on here are left.
0 -
3 hours ago, Howlin' Wilf said:
I don't know about anyone else but I'm pretty scunnered with this division. The 5 year stay has been good in parts and it has been a bit of an adventure. In the medium term though, it would be nice to support a winning team rather than be involved in an ongoing heroic struggle. Maybe we should be looking at the management team and squad we have and whilst still trying our best to stay in the Championship, have one eye on next season. We will be relegated sooner or later and when we are it should be with the thought that we do an Alloa rather than a Cowden. Aitken has a good track record at League One level. It might therefore be a bit hasty to sack him. My question earlier about who would replace him is very relevant. The Cowden fans latterly detested Jimmy Nichol but on his leaving they ended up with Colin Nish. Where are they now?
Alloa did well to attract Jack Ross. Their gamble of sacking Danny Lennon only started paying off this season once Jack Ross had been given a vote of confidence to continue after relegation. He's left them in decent fettle for an attempt at the League One title.
I have a feeling that Aitken, despite current events, is more of a Ross than a Nish.
My fear is that sacking Aitken might mollify the support in the short term. However, if it were just to replace him with AN Other then I wonder whether the seemingly inevitable outcome of this season would be avoided......
It's a point I made some time ago but the posters' consensus then was that you want your team to be performing at the highest level possible. Fair enough, but when you are barely competing, never mind performing and entertaining, then only a masochist would wish to repeatedly wish to stoically sit thro the likes of yesterday.
And as I've already also posted, the achievements in terms of results and league standing in the last five seasons have been nothing short of astonishing, given the very odd system of governance which exists at DFC. In essence, it seems that all football business is conducted and budgeted by local Directors required to operate with minimal input in any shape or form from the club's majority shareholders, Brabco. We should never overlook this as it ultimately affects everything on the playing side.
And that will be Brabco, the group of business individuals with no known track record of ever having delivered the sort of project they now aspire to here in Dumbarton. They want a return on their investment but the numbers and logistics are semi-fantastic, and when reality intrudes that could have very serious ramifications indeed for the future of Dumbarton FC;I believe that situation is potentially much more troubling than a threat of relegation following a miserable season.
As for Alloa, they have a very confident and apparently financially well-upholstered Chairman in Mike Mulraney, so other than the clubs' relative history, status and support base I don't see any great comparison. In fact, in view of what I've described above I'd be hard-pressed to think of any valid comparison in Scottish football right now.
0 -
2 hours ago, Sonsteam of 08 said:
Don't fear
I've watched it now. He didn't show any hints of resigning. Dang. Cliched drivel.
Interesting to see Alan Adamson referenced; I said today with 10 minutes or so to go that the wheel has now turned full circle to five years ago. Our team is an unbalanced mix, almost totally devoid of confidence with a Manager who looks to be really struggling.
There is one significant difference however; I very much doubt that the club could currently afford to roll up the remainder of his and Stevie Farrell's contracts, so unless he elects to fall on his sword we may well all have to stumble on.
I've always supported SA's appointment and have on occasions have given him the benefit of the doubt, but the evidence is there for all to see. Dubious teams selections - why wasn't Bucky in beside Sparky today, releasing Barr to patrol the deep midfield and allow Joe Thompson to push forward in what was a HOME game FFS - allied to stiflingly negative tactics and weird substitutions (what about the last two this afternoon?) have sapped both the players and the supporters.
What to do ? Well, a clear the air meeting giving everyone a say would be a start, allied to getting Garry fit enough to start regularly alongside Thommo. Aye, two strikers, that revolutionary.
I'd also consider moving Sparky into left or central midfield, depending on how that dovetails with Stanton, with Gal and Todd making up a four man middle in a 4-4-2 formation. Yes, that's right ,no starting place for Smith or Stevenson, with the latter now looking to be much more an expensive tent pole than a marquee signing.
But what do I know ??
0 -
3 hours ago, Nowhereman said:
As late as the 1960s? It's fifty years ago. To put that in perspective fifty years before the 1960s the First World War was taking place. Would you have expected Dumbarton high street to look like it did during the first world war as you were growing up?Well yes, to be quite honest. Dumbarton High Street in 1964 would have looked pretty recognisable against the 1914 version, but both would have looked like Rodeo Drive compared to the 2014 version, both in terms of the retail spread, levels of economic activity and above all sense of community purpose.
Now there are a whole host of reasons for that decline, some of them unavoidable and some highly avoidable, but all I'm saying is that for those of us old enough to recall the High Street and it's denizens in much better nick pictures likes these are quite sad in a way.
0 -
20 minutes ago, Howlin' Wilf said:
I'm very impressed with the latest regeneration plans for the High Street though.....
That picture makes me almost weep Rab.
And I'm reminded of the film 'It's A Wonderful Life' in which the pleasant town of Bedford Falls descends into a dystopian dump called 'Pottersville', all because George Bailey's bank went under. Banks are about all that remain from that picture; to think that as late as the 1960's we had two licensed grocers, bespoke tailors, a stationers and a saddlers for Heaven's sake !
0 -
I visited the website of Culross Developments who are proposing the housing development on the old Hiram Walker's site, as well as the idea of a walkway from the quay to the base of the Rock, including visitor centre, etc., Whilst I noticed that this proposal is scheduled for a WDC Planning Meeting next month, I couldn't find any site plan or map of what is proposed.
There was a small artist's impression shown, and it looked to me as if the stadium had vanished - has anyone seen what's in this application at the Rock end ??
0 -
So, Jack Ross to take the reins at St Mirren. Discuss.
0 -
I've been pondering the current situation vis-à-vis Stevie Aitken, and whilst there's no doubt that he an Faz are doing all they can, a couple of things spring to mind.
I wonder if there is any sort of hangover from the Raith managerial vacancy when his name was apparently linked at one stage, and secondly I remain troubled by a remark he made at last season's POTY Dance when he revealed that he was advised by parties unstated 'not to touch the DFC job'.
Now if true, why would that be ? Because we are a plucky wee club tilting at bigger clubs, or is this a particularly difficult club for anyone to be Manager ? If it is the latter then that would be a worry indeed.
0 -
Just checking, folks, if this thread is still active, if only in a technical sense.......
0 -
7 hours ago, lionel wickson said:
Aren't we also looking to move Amadou Kassarate out on loan too?
Yes, and that's a shame as I was looking forward to the chant of 'Amadou, Dou, Dou, shake the Hibees from the tree....'
0
Sons' sorrow
in Scottish League 1 General Chatter
Posted
At the moment Stevenson is a luxury player, and one that we can't afford in any sense.