Pinigol

A very interesting part of history, one that isn't covered in our schools. Our history education in this country seems to be medieval kingdoms, industrial revolution, WW1, WW2 and JFK. Maybe if kids were taught from a young age that Britain and the United States weren't the only imperialistic countries with blood on their hands they wouldn't have such a narrow minded view of the world as it is now. Because the only logical explanation I can come up with for al-qaeda, Hamas and Hezbollah sympathisers in this country is ignorance of what these people really stand for and a lack of understanding on the history of conflict throughout the rest of Eurasia.

That's rich coming from him.

Does anyone in this thread not have SS-18 on ignore?

Chomsky is a fud. Used to be worth listening to but I stopped giving a f**k about his opinion right around the time he became an apologist for Serbian genocidaires. Israel does not call it war, they call it surgical strikes against terrorist targets. Israel has a right to defend it's people from rocket fire, and taking out launch sites is critical to doing that. Lay the finger at Hamas and similar groups who use civilian shields such as the aforementioned schools, apartment blocks and mosques. Now, we must all agree that these rocket attacks can not go unanswered, the question is is there a better way to deal with them than precision strikes?

I agree with Reynard. Again, Hamas hide behind their social activities and their crown as defender of the downtrodden, when in reality they only further the suffering of the people they claim to support. If they wanted to help the people of Gaza, they'd stop importing vast quantities of missiles and mortars for attacking civilians and use the money from their financial backers to reconstruct the territory. Rebuild in collaboration with the UN, instead of leaning on them to make the provisions for the people that are their responsibility. How many mouths could be fed with the money that paid for one of those Iranian design rockets they so righteously fired at Tel Aviv?

:lol: :lol: :lol: Good one. Fact is, its easier for you to just brand anyone that disagrees with your position right wing, when that couldn't be further from the truth in the majority of posters that you're labeling in this thread. We might not agree with the actions of Israel in the past, but unlike some our default setting isn't to automatically side with maniacal fascists because they're anti-western and have falsely been given the tag of defenders of the oppressed.

Gobshite.

That seems to be your stock response, by accusing others of anti-semitism despite the fact that you hold some bizarre views when it comes to jews and their role in the world. I'm against Zionism, in that I believe the state was founded on an injustice (although that's the case with many countries) and that the illegal occupation of land is wrong. But none of that changes the fact that Israel exists, and has a right to protect it's people.

Whereas you're copying stuff you got from Zeitgeist and other "eye opening" documentaries.

:lol: :lol: Tin foil hat stuff from SS-18.

Genuinely, how do you get through life believing that there are global jewish conspiracies and shit like that? I mean, your default setting is to attack the Israelis and then some bizarre David Icke-esque stuff nabbed from RussiaToday (a beacon of unbiased journalism ). I see it the same with the anti-war folks and the 9/11 "truthers", evidence is only legitimate if it supports their story, and anyone who disagrees with them has been brainwashed by the corporate propaganda machine etc.

You're off your fucking head lad. f**k me... :lol:

I've stated it before, Hamas will not consider the score settled until Israel is wiped off the map. They believe they have god on their side in this conflict and have no interest in relenting, even if Israel were to take steps to improve the situation in Gaza it would have little impact on the actions of hardline militant groups. As always, when under pressure people are more likely to side with the extremist parties, and the people of Gaza have been suffering for a long time. The majority of people in this situation on both sides of the border want peace, the problem lies with the right wing religious who veto any attempt at progress. Most Israelis understand the suffering that goes on, it's brought to their attention constantly, and they know they have to improve the situation, but the fact that they are under constant threat of rocket attack gives the extreme parties more weight when they take a harder stance. I stand by what I said, it needs to be Hamas that takes the first step back if they really care for the people of Gaza.

Does it give a breakdown of civilians/militants? I'd also say that there's a good chance they bear some responsibility for a number of those casualties by launching rockets from civilian areas.

They are, but currently it's going to take Hamas and similar groups to take the first step back if we've ever to see an improvement in the situation. Israel will never lift restrictions as long as their civilians are under threat. They will continue to strike on rocket positions as long as they're aimed at Israeli towns. More needs to be done from the international community, but it's difficult to see either side climbing down when you've got two sets of peoples who both feel aggrieved at past injustices, blame each other for escalation in conflict and are convinced they have a devine right to occupy the land.

Where have I defended the nutjobs that think they can bring on the messiah by stealing as much land as possible. There's a difference between accepting that the Israeli state exists and has a right to protect it's people and supporting the religious nuts who believe it's their right to expand on to territory they have stolen and occupy illegally. The difference is, I don't start supporting the worst elements of Palestinian resistance because I've seen the damage that Israel has done.

I'd say the wide mistrust of Israeli Arabs by it's Jewish population and it's politics might well see such a problem. It's often referred to as a time bomb, well that's only the case if they allow it to be so. I think things are getting better, but there's still a way to go before you see parity. No question you would feel aggrieved when your fellow citizens treat you as inferior, would there be radicalisation and hostility? I'm not so sure, not on a large scale anyway. Either way, it will be interesting to look at the situation in 50 years time and see if the Jewish population choose to embrace a larger Arab population or tried to force them out.

You're so smart.

No it doesn't, the point I'm making is that Israeli efforts to potentially defuse the situation would be undone by hardline radicals and outside influences. Israel can't be seen to do nothing when rockets are flying over the homes of their people, and even when Hamas are reluctant to launch there are smaller, more radical groups who will continue to do so. My solution is pretty much what Israel is doing, using their Iron Dome system to knock out as many rockets as possible and launching swift counter-strikes on those launching them. It will be tough for the people of Gaza but Israel is in a tough position where it must defend it's people. Thankfully they are technologically advanced enough to minimise civilian casualties. In a more general sense, I'll come back when I've got more time to type it out.

In anywhere else in the world you might be right that it would see a decline in the conflict, but you're missing the critical point that these islamists are bound by an insane ideology that believes the score will not be settled until Israel is wiped from the face of the earth. The radical movements might start to lose favour within Palestinian territory but that won't stop countries like Iran as well as individuals pumping money and arms into a cause that is determined to inact harm on any Israeli it can.

What is your solution to Israeli civilians threatened by rocket attacks from Gaza, if not a military response?

Yet another time the mislead and ill-informed liberal left in this country back radicals and extremists. What these people seem to be unaware of is that groups like Hamas draw their strength from the popular hatred of Israel, but in reality they and their fellow jihadists couldn't care less about the plight of the people they so righteously claim to defend. Despite being vastly outgunned they focus all their efforts and the majority of their resources on pointless acts of aggression, deliberately targeting civilians, rather than accepting the fact that Israel isn't going away and it is an enemy they cannot beat. These are not the actions of men concerned with the long suffering of their people. I feel it's also worth making a distinction. Whilst all civilian casualties are tragic, there is no question that the intentional targeting of civilians is more reprehensible than those killed accidentally in the resulting counter-strike. Again, if Hamas and similar groups concern lied with the people of Gaza they would not launch their rockets from schools and densely populated civilian areas, the fact is it's good for propaganda to see a child's body carried from a smoldering wreck of a building and they honestly don't give a shit how many innocent people die as they fight their cause. We can go through the history books and pick out who did what and how Israel is evil etc. etc. But that doesn't get us anywhere, and Israel is here now so deal with the current situation and it's resolution instead of trying to assign blame to the people you feel were originally responsible. You don't have to back Israel's actions in the past and currently to see that the actions of groups such as Hamas are disgusting and only perpetuate the suffering of the innocent.