Paquis
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Posts posted by Paquis
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I seem to remember Motherwell signing Stephen Craigan and Alex Burns from rivals Partick Thistle - whilst they were still in administration.
And Motherwell got away with NO PUNISHMENT WHATSOEVER.
You do realise that you are not allowed to bring facts into this discussion.
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well actually, any other team would have paid their taxes in the first place.
Factually incorrect. Motherwell didn't, Dundee didn't, Hearts have been late, etc. etc.
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Won't matter once the EBT's are proven.
The EBTs are proven. Nobody has ever denied their existence and they were disclosed in Rangers annual reports.
The questions are
1) should they be taxable ... and
2) do they constitute a second contract.
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Rangers, despite what their followers may think, are small fry in HMRCs big battle. If they get nothing they won't care, as was said 500-odd pages back, every other sports club in the UK will start paying their PAYE and NI on time.
Just needs one to go.
You mean other clubs haven't been paying on time
Quick, punish them.
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Can you support that comment?
It is a logical conclusion if the CVA is knocked back. Rangers go Newco.
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OH trust me I was laughing at it.
Dundee 6p I understand and no problem.
Motherwell 20p ! still over twice what Green has offered and understand coz they don't have a lot of money or investors.
NOW ! the biggest most successful club team on the planet with global market interest !!!!! 9 fcuking pence in the pound ! now that's laughable
.Also Green says he has a warchest for next season and the creditors are offered ? Green says has has millionaire backers and they only offer £8 point something million CVA ?.If your club is so valuable and worth saving surely the investors could have stumped up at least 50p in the pound.Yip smoke and mirrors at work here and the shitty stick is out after the CVA gets knocked back and you the fan will pay for it all and have a crappy team next year coz you'll still be in admin and working out more CVA deadlines whilst still making new appeals against the big tax case to be held back till you and your fellow fans invest more money into the corpse before it eventually dies.Anyone who invested anything in your club will get their money ??? sorry your money and walk away.
That's what's laughable coz you and your fans will pay for failure yet again.
The investors will pay as little as they can get away with. That is business. And, if the creditors refuse, they will liquidate and pay out even less. That is just the way it works in real life.
And any other team in the same position would probably do the same.
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And back to my point about 'independent' administrators.......... shhhhhhhhhhhhh
you really are patheticI assume the insults are because you don't really have a point
Alternatively, you could be lacking in vocabulary
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Is that for real ? ffs surely the taxman wouldnt accept this amount when its his turn to get paid out.
didnt hmrc refuse portsmouth 20p in the £.my tax return is due.9p it is then
Then Rangers will liquidate and the taxman will get even less.
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Chief executive Stewart Regan added: "We have discussed the matter with Celtic Football Club and they accept that Neil Lennon was guilty of misconduct.
"However, with regard to the timing of the suspension we must accept that if our rules cannot be enforced in a court of law then they cannot be imposed and it is foolish to waste money defending such a point.
"We acknowledge that our rules do need updating and I have proposed to our board that we commission a complete re-write of the disciplinary procedures from a legal perspective to address this whole matter.
"Whilst we have an obligation to ensure that our rules can be legally enforced, nevertheless it is important for the future of Scottish football that we do not allow our disciplinary procedures to be used as a costly legal playground.
"We must ensure we can reach a happy balance where every decision is not subject to an appeal and football can self-govern without constant legal interventions."
Stewart Regan said this April last year regarding Neil Lennon's over-lapping bans
Yeah ... but that was different ..... err I think .... was it?
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Even OJ's prosecution team had good days in court.
OJ was acquitted
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Well just how were supposed to have the case heard then? Independent panels are appointed all the time, it's hardly unprecedented.
They were also selected from a list of individuals rangers agreed to as being qualified to sit on such a panel.
And I notice you ignored my question on just what punishment you should have been handed?
Not only do you lot not accept the need for your club to be punished but you now seem to be suggesting that nobody should even sit in judgement to decide if you should or should not be punished.
It cannot be 'independent' if it is appointed by one of the parties in the case.
It can only be independent if appointed by a third party which is not involved.
The fact that the individuals were qualified or that Rangers had agreed to them is not relevant to the discussion of 'independence'.
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40 pages just read and up to date ......
I see the orcs are back in force ramming we won a meaningless legal battle !.
Baron Greenback has issued a laughable 9p in the pound CVA to the creditors.
I and lot of confused individuals like me ? WTF happens now ?.
Now I see why fat Sally was harping on "we take our punishment no matter what" as he obviously thought at worst no Scottish cup run next year as he knew his team had no chance after last seasons fiasco.
I haven't been on ra ragers media yet but I'm sure they feel they will come through this debt free and the big tax case will get thrown out and all that blah blah blah.
Now the SFA and Rangers are about to go head to head over acceptable punishment.I can't wait to see how big the SFA's balls are now !.
It would appear to me that Rangers have been given every opportunity for stalling tactics so next years fixtures in the premier league include the tax dodgers at any cost.Once in the revenue starts and I'm sure Greeny will bleed the fans as dry as possible to pay for an increased "guess what" another improved CVA topped up the the gers fans money.Make no mistake that Baron Greenback will not invest in the club and there will be a rangers for the taking on the pitch.
IMHO this fiasco will in all likely still be alive well into next season with more appeals deadlines and fcuk knows what to help bleed more money out the gers fans to pay for past owners mistakes and line owners pockets.
How much is 'laughable'?
Dundee offered 6p
Motherwell offered 20p
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this is what happens when you finish your exams 20 mins early;
I hope it wasn't an art exam.
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A couple of tweets eh?! Sounds serious
I don't think EUFA are particularly interested - probably couldn't care less. If the SFA impose the piddling exlusion from the cup then they'll likely be glad they don't need to get invovolved.
EUFA have done SFA so far (meaning Sweet....). I don't see that they're on flights to Glasgow as we speak!
UEFA will stay well clear IMHO. The last thing they want is to get embroiled in a case that might spill into arguments over EU employment law (free movement of labour and all that).
Uefa has shelved proposals to impose a transfer ban on clubs that breach its financial fair-play rules amid concerns that its planned penalties will be legally unenforceable, or face challenges from individual players.
Lawyers have advised that Uefa could be open to restraint-of-trade suits from players excluded from the competition.
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Seems the sfa are getting over much abuse here.
They appointed an INDEPENDENT panel to first decide whether rangers had brought the game into disrepute and what the punishment should be then appointed another INDEPENDENT panel to adjudicate the appeal. Yes they could perhaps have had specified some more punishments for the charge or made the catch all clause more water tight than the CoS has deemed it but it is not their fault their Independent panels interpreted their rules differently to the CoS.
I'm know little about the details and legalities about what the sfa can do now but it seems to me this is all still just a side show to the cva and the btc/ebt/double contracts.
Finally I'm yet to see what punishment the rangers support believe is suitable for the current charges of bringing the game into disrepute which have now been found to be proven three times? What exactly would they think was acceptable? The most sickening aspect of this whole episode seems to be the rangers fans belief that they should infact escape any punishment what so ever.
If you 'appoint' a panel then, by definition, it cannot be independent.
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FIFA imposed the ban, but the Swiss FA essentially ignored it and allowed Sion to register players.
After Celtic's appeal about Sion was upheld by UEFA the club took it to the Swiss courts. At that point, UEFA demanded that the Swiss FA punish Sion, which they did with a massive points deduction.
No. Sion was granted a temporary injunction by a court in Valais that they could field the players. The Swiss FA respected that injunction until it was overturned by a higher court.
It was FIFA that demanded that the Swiss FA punish Sion, not UEFA. However, the points deduction was for fielding ineligible players and not for taking FIFA/UEFA/Swiss FA to court.
The points deduction only happened after Sion had lost both in Swiss court (Vaud and Valais) and at the CAS (which Swiss jurisprudence recognises as being competent).
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Technically, the players on EBTs were all 'ineligible' and the investigation(s) are still ongoing for them. Needless to say, more punishments are en route for these double contracts. Very serious breaches with perhaps only match fixing more serious (a la SFA recent statement). I can't see a way out for Rangers, but the more they dig the more muck is thrown out.
That has not been proven as yet.
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Done it, and can i just say. You made such a heartfelt plea there, that i did a cut & paste job
Hope you fixed the typo
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Maybe not, but they threatened the Swiss FA who took appropriate action. I'd like that to happen here too.
Sion was punished by the Swiss FA for fielding ineligible players (not for going to the courts) and only after they had actually lost in court (Tribunal Cantonal de Valais) and lost at the CAS.
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I'm guessing from this you think no action will be taken by FIFA?
Nope ... no action from FIFA IMHO.
Partly because their remedy is the CAS and SFA rules do not allow for that.
But, mainly, because they don't want to tangle with EU laws. Every time they have tried that in the past they got screwed (e.g. Bosman). My guess is that they will tell the SFA to give Rangers a punishment that can stand up in court and leave it at that.
Then it is up to the SFA to find a middle ground that manages to piss everyone off for a while but which won't actually mean too much .... like exclusion from the Scottish cup for a year.
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^^^^^This
FIFA should put the complete shyters up the SFA and threaten a ban on all International Qualifiers if they don't punish Rangers appropriately. This happened in Switzerland and so it can happen here. Make it happen.
The Sion situation was quite different and Sion was never punished for going to the courts.
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I completely disagree with those knickerwetters on this thread saying the Court of Session decision was appalling. On the contrary, Rangers can now only suffer a stricter or worse sanction from the SFA, namely suspension or expulsion. I now await the tribunal's revised punishment with great interest. Kick them out now. If Rangers apply to become a newco then that newco must be sanctioned by....you guessed it.....the SFA. What's the chances the SFA will grant Rangers a licence after all thats happened, the square root of f*** all. The Court of Session decision was the best decision that could have happened today. Let's not forget, of the SFA don't do anything then big daddy FIFA will. Bye bye Rangers, it's been a total displeasure knowing you and your ilk.
Borrowed from another forum ........
*Phone rings*
Sepp Blatter: Hello?
Stewart Regan: Hello Sepp, it's Stewart Regan here
Blatter: Who?
Regan: Umm, Stewart Regan
Blatter: I don't want cheaper car insurance
Regan: No.. I'm umm, in charge of the Scottish Football Association
Blatter: Where?
Regan: Scotland... uhh, we are just a bit North of England
Blatter: Oh, I can't stand them, what do you want?
Regan: Well, it's this thing about Rangers
Blatter: Ah, Rangers, good club, Champions League, Europa League final, yes? I know them very well
Regan: Well, uhh, they broke some rule and we tried to punish them, and they ran away to the courts to change it
Blatter: But, this is disgraceful, they signed up to your rules, and must abide by the punishments they signed up to, we will hammer them
Regan: Ah, but umm, this punishment wasn't actually in the rules
Blatter: O...k... so, there were no other punishments?
Regan: Well, yes, but they would have affected my sponsorship money and stuff, and we fined them the most we could, even though they are in administration and don't have any money, because this guy took them over and he was a bad, bad guy.
Blatter: He must have been clever, to pass through your strict rules on people who can run clubs
Regan: Ah, well, yes, umm, I mean he said he was ok
Blatter: And your checks?
Regan: Well, we didn't do any
Blatter: You are a complete moron aren't you?
Regan: But, but, but Peter says.....
Phone slammed down.
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All true.
Sadly expected, which makes it tragic that we are stuck with this cancer ruining our game.
Scottish Football will never ever flourish or improve if next season is "as you were"
Terrible decision from the CoS today, too many buns in high places.
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Wrong Rangers forced the SFA to expel them, they haven't dug any hole .. nobody would blame them !!
Clubs forced into Administration through loss of revenue might. So far, they don't seem all that keen on even dropping Rangers from the SPL.
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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
I think the punishment was far too severe. A couple of smaller fines would, perhaps, have been the right measure.
Essentially, Rangers are paying for the failure of the SFA to do their job as regulator properly. The SFA intone that the directors 'must have known what was going on'. Well they did. John Greig, John McClelland and Donald McIntyre all resigned from the Rangers board in October of 2011 citing that the had been excluded from corporate governance by CW. Now, when your FD resigns then, to most regulators, that is a red flag.
So what did the SFA do? Yep, you got it, SFA.
Having failed, somebody had to pay. Yep, that somebody was Rangers.
So why did Rangers get punished and not Motherwell. Both were in Administration and both had failed to pay the taxman amongst others. The only answer you ever get to that question is the amount owed. But rules are generally based on principles and are not quantitative.