Roker Rover
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Posts posted by Roker Rover
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Didn't Burley's restaurant go bust costing loads of businesses money.
No doubt that was all the fault of the knuckle dragging idiots he had as customers though and the chip shop competition down the road that was 10 x smaller.
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'He also looked at the possibility of buying Carlisle, but believes we cannot merge with an English club. We would have to start at the bottom of the conference if we were to go to England'.
I am sure the members of the 8 levels and numerous divisions below the Conference in the North of England will be surprised to learn that news. It seems not content with getting parachuted through 2 divisions in their own country, they now want to consider doing 4x worse in mine!!
For future reference Charlie Boy, this is how the English Pyramid works in my part of the world;
1-Premier League
2-Championship
3-League One
4-League Two
5-Conference
6-Conference North
7-Northern Premier League Premier Division (Unibond Premier)
8-Northern Premier League First Division (Unibond First Division)
9-Northern League Division One
10-Northern League Division Two
11-Northern Alliance Premier Division or Wearside League
12-Northern Alliance Division One
13-Northern Alliance Division Two
I have used the North East side of the country for the above example as its where I am and what I know best, but a similar tree exists on the North Western side and a lot of the most Northerly Cumbria based sides play in the North East anyway.
The Wearside League at level 11 is therefore the lowest that any new team can enter the pyramid and they are running at 22 teams next season and have no vacancies. Both the Wearside league and the Northern Alliance have additional feeder leagues but these are not within the pyramid and access to both leagues is by election by the member clubs. Both leagues are currently full. I would suggest a good starting point for Newco Rangers would be either the North Northumberland League (level 14) and gain acceptance into the Northern Alliance Division Two having proved their worth at the lower level. With unbroken success we could see them reaching the heights of the conference by 2022 at the earliest and the Premier League by 2026. They could be back playing in Europe through league position by 2027!!
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No Roker, that was a interesting post that I have just read on my night shift tea break. Don't be put off posting because of one individual.
Cheers for that mate and its appreciated.. I realise I am an outsider on here and I don't want to impose or detract from the debate on the matter in hand and that was never my intention, buts its late at night!!
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Is £430 cheap (or expensive) for a season ticket at Sunderland? The website isn't particularly helpful as it requires me to login.
Its what the average non concession fan would pay for a seat behind the goal. Touchline seats are more and there are executive options with use of private bars etc on top of that.
http://www.safc.com/...adiumPlanPrices
Prices on that link are after the early bird renewal prices, which explains how I saved £20ish.
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Can we shift this pish from this forum now and dump it somewhere else?
Fair comment mate.
Just trying to explain how the finance's in England are weighted towards the TV deal and that the whole shooting match would collapse if that went.
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Yeah but think about your own argument. How much of your overall spend is on actual admission?
I can't really be bothered doing the arithmetic, at the moment, but knock a couple of quid off the entrance fee and overall to your club it maybe makes a difference. The fact you pay that much to watch the game, and the fact that so many others do, suggests it could maybe be argued that the market rate is being charged.
Don't get me wrong I think, ultimately, the players are paid far too much and, ultimately, it's the fans who are paying for it. I just don't think there is a scenario, other than a maximum pricing policy, which I wouldn't disagree with, that could change the way the game is.
It would need to be universal, however, as players would just opt to play in a higher paid league.
Can I ask you what you would prefer to pay?
Nothing!!
In all seriousness, you are of course right, because the crowds would drop when it became too much and as our season ticket sales are apparently up again this year (we had around 30,000 last year), then clearly we have not reached the tipping point yet.
I probably spend more on away tickets than I do on my season ticket, even though I maybe do 12 away games a season on average and we have 19 home league games. Cup tickets tend to be cheaper until perhaps the quarter finals, which we rarely get to, last season being an exception. I did all 6 FA Cup ties last season plus another 2 watching Gateshead in the FA cup, which put another £150 on my ticket bill or more like £200 plus when I factor in 2 additional QF tickets for my daughters. I also watch Gateshead league games plus Sunderland and Gateshead reserves.
Total spend on admission was actually £1081.85 for the 110 games I attended (I am sad and keep a spreadsheet!!) this does not include my daughters tickets and does include lots of Gateshead and Northern League/Wearside League/Northern Alliance games plus reserves.
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I often go against the grain and I reckon £430 to see Sunderland is reasonable value.
As I have renewed at that price I am not in a position to argue with you.
Its a small percentage of the clubs income when measured against TV income and sponsorship etc, so why can they not cut us a bit of slack?
I actually spent over £4,000 watching Sunderland last season, when you consider season ticket, travel to home games, cup tickets, extra tickets for my 2 daughters now and again, away match tickets, away match travel and hotels plus food and drink (admittedly this was mostly drink!!). I am lucky that at the moment, I can afford this, but its not the cheap working class pass time that it was when I started going. Is £45 for an away match good value? I pay it despite my better judgement mainly because I enjoy the day out with some really good lads. Its a social thing for me.
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Berwick Rangers
I explained in my first ever post, that I could not find a 'non of the above option' so I picked Berwick as an English side and one that was nearest to me. I have a soft spot for them but I am a Sunderland fan first (and Gateshead second).
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Think about it, eh? The reason German football is so (comparitively) cheap is because the clubs use their TV & commercial income to subsidise gate prices. If we got the same money as the Norwegian League, for example, Scottish clubs (other than the two obvious monstrosities) could subsidise gate prices by a £5 (or even a tenner) and still come out ahead even if gates remained static.
I have been saying this for years.
My club is on the gravy train that is the English Premier League and collected something like £45,000,000 in TV revenue last season alone. Our season ticket revenue is no more than one third of that despite crowds of around 40,000 average. We do not get the benefit of large numbers of away fans either as most of the league think its too far to travel and if they are going to bother, they would rather visit Newcastle in the (mistaken IMHO) belief that its a better night out. Next season the TV revenue is going to rise significantly yet again, but do I expect a discount on my £430 season ticket? What do you think? They will probably freeze the price again and pretend they are doing us a favour.
Sunderland are well supported by anybody's standards. For most of my life (I am in my mid 40's) and for most of our history, we have been one of the top ten best supported sides in England and have been as high as 3rd in that list at times, even while being outside the top division for long periods. I was once in a 52,000 crowd for a second division game at Roker Park and my elder brothers could raise that by another 12.000. I think we were 6th or 7th top supported side again last season. Despite this, we have spent large periods outside the top league and this happened even before the TV revenue was significant, so big crowds do not always = success.
It's about time that clubs in the Premier League gave something back to the people who create the atmosphere at grounds that sells their 'product'. Sunderland could let me and every other current season card holder in for nothing and not even notice the difference when this new TV deal comes into effect, but I won't hold my breath. They will pocket the extra and spend it on yet more foreign mercenaries in the forlorn hope of holding onto the coat tails of the likes of Liverpool, Villa and Spurs.
Its frightening to think that Sunderland's take from the TV revenue dwarfs by a factor of three, the figure that (If you believe the bull), will lead to civil unrest and financial Armaggedon in Scotland.
You might wonder what all this has to do with the Rangers story, but I see what is happening in Scotland now as a forerunner to what will happen down south sooner or later. Virtually every club in the top two divisions down here is budgeting for massive TV revenue and if it was ever to disappear then the Rangers thing will look minor by comparison. Even with riches beyond the dreams of what those of us who watched football in the 80's could ever dream of, clubs are still losing money year on year. Football seems to be the opposite of normal business practice in that the bigger your turnover, the bigger your losses. Not being funny, but if Sunderland had the equivalent of £45,000,000 in the 80's we could probably have won the European cup multiple times!!
We have already seen the likes of Leeds and Pompey go tits up over the last few years, but in all honesty, those two are not historically really big clubs by English standards. They have both had brief periods of success but for the most part are not among the elite and have never been consistently among the best supported. We ain't seen nothing yet.
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As an outsider, is it possible that Doncaster and Regan are double agents here. To be honest, they could not have done more to get the clubs to vote 'No' if they tried. Nobody likes to be told what's best for them and even fewer like being blackmailed.
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This Twitter feed is hilarious. We are seeing the beginning of the ex-RFC factions and probably the emergence of several different 'continuity Rangers'.
The peoples front of Govan and the Govan peoples front??
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Div 1 needs to mean no more sanctions. I'd probably go with this.<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">Div 1 with sanctions, and they can all take a f**k to themselves. Green included.
They still don't get it do they? Still talking like its their choice and they hold some cards. Someone ought to point out to them that Div 1 without sanctions equates to a promotion of 2 divisions (minimum) over where any other club would have been by now.
The SPL have told them to do one and now they are turning their charm offensive on the SFL. If they Can 'all take a f**k to themselves', then where exactly do these deluded idiots think they will be watching their team play next season (or any other season for that matter)?
I have noticed in the last 2 days a different slant to the words coming from the new owners, which would have helped significantly had it happened much much earlier but it seems the hard core are still singing from the same tired old hymn book. Its actually hard to believe that these people actually exist.
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So its a £17.25m loss and there will no nothing at all replacing it??
And don't TKFKAR and Celtic currently take 40% each of the £17.25m anyway? That leaves £3.45m for the rest?
Say the deals reduce to one third, i.e. £5.75m, no Rangers to pay 40% to and Celtic still get 40% of the smaller pie. Celtic would get £2.3m and that would leave, £3.45m for the other clubs.
Under the above scenario, the remaining non old firm clubs would be totally unaffected.
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No, unfortunately:
* there's no 3yr accounts rule in SFL
* they'd need simple majority (50%+1) to be elected to SFL
* there appears to be some loophole that could enable them to be admitted to SFL1 on simple majority, can't quite remember the details
But there is in the SPL, so what's the point of parachuting them into the SFL1 when they could not be accepted into the SPL for three years?
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I`ve been trying to keep on top of this since February with varying degrees of success.
One of the few things that seemed fairly straightforward was that Sevco would need 75% of the vote to be elected to the SFL.
A club needs 50% of the vote to be elected to the SFL BUT that club needs to present three years audited accounts. That is an SFL rule.
A rule change in the SFL constitution needs 75% of the member clubs voting for the proposal.
To the best of my knowledge Sevco cannot possibly present three years audited accounts. No matter how many lawyers they come up with, this cannot possibly be a matter of interpretation. Wonder how they`ll try to spin this next week?
I have got this right have`nt I?
As far as I can see, yes, you have got it right. Although its virtually a full time job trying to keep up.
I think you have hit the nail on the head though. They will need the 75% to change the 3 year accounts rule, and I am pretty sure, there are already enough SFL 'NO's' to prevent that? These lawyers better be good, because I just cannot see how they can possibly spin this and make it look like anything other than a fix and a slap in the face of fans who only want fairness and adherence of the rules.
Can someone, more up to speed than me, please list those clubs, both SPL and SFL, who have publicly stated their voting intentions. I am losing touch.
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We are not a laughing stock. Nobody outside Scotland cares.
Is that right?
http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=710982
Currently the second biggest thread on my clubs forum and been going strong for weeks now. I suspect loads of other English clubs are also interested.
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Yeah sorry (but I did edit it immediately) ... I was laughing so hard it was difficult to concentrate and type ... I mean a Killie fan talking about no identity.
:lol: Celtic are a global brand with supporters worldwide (and various nationalities) .. so what exactly do Killie have?
Is the answer, respect for their fellow clubs?
Do I win a prize?
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Been out golfing tonight... a quick update, anyone?
Golf is a waste of a good walk.
Hope this helps.
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I have an extensive database of my club Sunderland's previous games on my computer, being a bit of an SAFC nerd and having done a fair bit of research and I came up with 6 games against teams from Dumbarton. These were as follows;
3rd January 1887 - Sunderland 2 Dumbarton Athletic 5 - Newcastle Road, Sunderland
20th April 1889 - Sunderland Albion 2 Dumbarton Athletic 5 - Blue House Field, Sunderland (Albion were a rival club formed as result of a dispute at SAFC)
27th May 1889 - Sunderland 4 Dumbarton Athletic 3 - Newcastle Road, Sunderland
1st January 1890 - Sunderland Reserves 3 Dumbarton Rangers 3 (What happened to Dumbarton Rangers? Did they get voted out for tax evasion?)
2nd January 1890 - Sunderland Albion Reserves 1 Dumbarton Rangers 3 - Blue House Field, Sunderland
22nd April 1896 - Dumbartonshire 2 Sunderland 2 - Glasgow
I have searched my records thoroughly and can I say without fear of contradiction that neither Sunderland, or Sunderland Albion, have ever played Sevco 5088.
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Q. What was the name of the team whose demise was responsible for the most glorious thread on P&B?
No. Well here's a clue, their last chairman ended up doing five years for fraud.
Still no takers, right final clue, their former ground is now an ASDA supermarket?
ASDA = Ashleys Sports Direct Arena. It's Newcastle United, do I win a prize?
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http://forum.rangers...entry1060153075
We're doomed, we're all doomed!!!!
If we go to div 3 and one of the haters has to liquidate and apply to the s.f.l our should be a no and send them to scottish footballs grave yard. I hate them all. They 2 words that liewell made up make me so angry. When karma bites it bites hard!
Someone really should point out to this idiot, that very shortly, his new club is very likely to be going cap in hand to the SFL clubs fighting for its very survival.
Is there one single Rangers fan out there who has realised the seriousness of the situation and tried to show some remorse and build a few bridges? Its denial, denial, denial and they are going to deny themselves into oblivion at this rate.
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I am sure its already been said, but today's news makes the Motherwell fans vote a formality regardless of the clubs statement. Even if fans were concerned that their club would go into admin without the Newco, what is the point in voting them in when 5 others have already said no?
This vote is going to be 11-1 against in my opinion.
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Scottish football chiefs agree on deal to take Rangers newco into First Division.
Appalling journalism from the Sunday Mail today.
If you take that article at face value, they are only reporting what appears to have been agreed in principle between the three governing bodies. The 'Appalling' part is that agreement, not the journalism.
Seems having almost certainly failed with the SPL vote, the powers that be want to have another go with the SFL clubs. Lets hope that at least 8 of them have a sense of justice.
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How can one(potentially two) visit(s) from Rangers be worth £900k ?
If 4,000 Rangers fans were to turn up twice a season, Kilmarnock would need to charge them £112.50 each.
If tickets are actually £40 then Rangers would need to take 11,250 fans to Kilmarnock twice.
If Tickets are actually £25 then Rangers would need to take 18,000 fans to Kilmarnock twice.
In addition, 20% of the ticket price to any football match is VAT, so for Kilmarnock to lose £900,000 they would actually need to sell £1,125,000 worth of tickets, making all the above examples even more extreme. I do not know how much Kilmarnock charge at the gate for an Old Firm game. Over to you guys?
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:lol:
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
I would listen to this guy Killie fans, after all he has been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. I doubt the club shop payed the VAT on the t-shirt, but that's another story.....