unthinkable
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Posts posted by unthinkable
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Aye not much of a shot stopper, or kicker, or cross taker, or communicator... but he was some physical presence !!!
Rudy Pussyfanny looked more like a spin bowler than a goalkepeer, used to hang in the air forever when coming for crosses, totally and utterley useless.
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Must be time to post this again...
(Although this season it would seem pointless given the number of derbies we're getting anyway; but) why isn't the Fife Cup played in pre-season, over a weekend, at one venue? 45 minute games? Involve the four senior sides, plus four others? Two groups on first day, knockout on second.
Damn sight more entertaining than Stenhousemuir away or Norwich at home..
The last time it was played as a warm up we played the Shipyard and they kicked off us the park and we had 3 or 4 players out injured for the opening league game, so Jimmy Nic decided to knock it on the head.
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Do you think we will edge ever closer to being a full-time club in the summer.
There is no need to go totally full-time, the difference in training is probably around 6-8 hours at most, two of our top performers are part-timers in Davie McGurn and Mark Campbell. Financially it might not be that far out of our reach, but a part-time/full-time hybrid allows flexibility and opens up an extra market when looking for players. Having a committed manager like McGlynn is key to this though, someone willing to work the hours to satisfy both camps.
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The SFL have it in the rules that they can punish clubs however they see fit if a club enters into administration/liquidation process. Livi appealed to the SFA that they punishment dished out by the SFL was severe. How could the SFA come to any other conclusion that the SFL had not acted improper. Clubs with a direct vested interest were barred from voting, again providing a fair hearing.
I cannot believe that any Livi fan truly thought that it would be overturned and there appeal would be up-held. The fact that Livi are still paying full-time players first division wages prove that they are still living in cloud cuckoo land, fantasy football played out with money they do not have. Clyde could not afford to pay players so terminated thier contracts but Livi carry on like the band on the Titanic. A truly tragic and pathetically run club. Next crisis for them will not be far away in my opinion.
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I think Morton fans filled your coffers during the two seasons we spent together in the seaside league, including filling the away stand in May 2007.
Yes but fumigating the stands afterwards cost us double what was brought in, you are right but those games were few and far between, two big games a season was the norm hence why we now have a full time/part time hybrid squad.
The point is every club has to take it's medicine at some point and suffer before it gets better. Clubs like Livi and Gretna never understood this. Quotes like "relegation is not an option" or "we need to go up this year" were frequently spouted. Running a football club is not rocket science but some clubs budget to succeed only, and that is a dangerous game. The SPL was never a pot of gold and is even less so with Setanta going tits up.
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Why could Livi not start from the 3rd and come back up through the ranks in the same way?
Livi's debt is so great that it would be impossible, that is why MacDougall and Rankine were mumping about additional sanctions to the bond would cause them to re-consider investing. Having spent 5 seasons in the 2nd Div, Raith know fine well that there is no money to be made from the lower leagues. Where we got hit in the pocket was from the absence of away supporters. Only 2 bumper East Fife games last year brought us any real extra income and an atmosphere to boot.
It would appear that Livi had a new business plan set-up for 1st Div only and maybe they showed that hand too early to the SFL.
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The reason for you not starting with a home game was explained time and time again
Yes yes the league has a set sequence blah, blah but that rigid policy does kind of look laughable when they can promote/relegate clubs with less than three days notice.
But nothing suprises me with Scottish Football anymore, if there is a difficult way of doing things we go that extra mile to acheive it.
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Well that'll keep the Raith fans happy...
Yup, the SFL somehow cannot accomodate Raith playing at home on the opening Saturday but can re-arrange three(possibly only two) teams full fixture list in 3 days.
In all honesty I think Saturday's fixtures will go ahead with the possible exception of East Stirling having a free week.
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Firstly to the appeal situation: Livingston have 2 routes of appeal, footballing and in the courts.
Appeal to the SFL - is possible, but needs to be ratified or rejected by a Special GM of clubs (at which Annan will have no vote btw), and my understanding is that a Special GM takes 14 days to be called. I presume the SFL clubs could meet earlier, but it's been a stick point before.
Livingston have 10 days to lodge an appeal against the sanction, alongwith a bond of £500.00.
Under rule 76.3 of the SFL rules (see link), there is no right of appeal of Management Committee decisions regarding rules 28, 31, 32 or 70. In this case the rule is 76.2 but the league can surely make alterations to fixtures (28), promotion / relegation (31 and 32), and club registration (70) which would further hamper an attempted appeal. But they do have a right to appeal today's sanction, provided they do so within 10 days and lodge that £500 appeal bond when doing so.
Appeal to the SFA - is possible, but would take time. The SFA is sovereign over all football here - and in non-league football, does quite often rule on points deductions/re-awarding cups/taking decisions where dispute has occurred etc. But this would be a confusing and frought approach.
Appeal to the courts - can presumably bring the whole SFL to a standstill in fixture terms, but I'm unsure about the timescales of this, or the practicalities of the club launching such an bid?
At least the SFL get the money upfront, never can be too careful with Livi.
I thought the League's lack of action followed by today's bombshell punishment was farcical, just wait to the appeal is lodged, full scale chaos will begin.
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It's not about guilt. I am merely pointing out that there's a human cost to this decision.
Even if we survive there's no way you can pay full time wages in the Third Division so there's about 20 players on the dole for a start before you start thinking about backroom folk.
Had Livi done what Clyde had to do then you might still be a 1st Div team. The penny has finally dropped, if you cannot afford them dont sign them.
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I don't expect any sympathy for the institution that is Livingston FC but there are now players and staff who will almost certainly be made redundant as a result of that decision.
If some folk find that a cause for celebration then I think they need to have a serious word with themselves.
Unbef***inglieveable, Liv not paying bills and trading whilst insolvent had nothing to do with this then. Relegation to the third did not make Livi employees redundant, spending money you did not have landed them in it. It was the actions of Livi owners not the SFL consquences to those actions that are to blame.
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Does anyone else think that it was the attempt at blackmail that has made the SFL react in this way ?
I think it proved that that Rankine and MacDougall were not in it 100% for Livi's sake and that rankled the SFL a bit. Also I think there must have been some backlash from other clubs boardrooms in private to the SFL about Livi escaping without punishment. Right decision about a week too late, why could they not have served this action last week.
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The thing is....if they are confident of fulfilling fixtures then it doesn't matter if it's £10 or £10 Million.
Livingston have a fantastic track record of paying what they owe, so let's just take them at face value and believe that if something happens we will all be compensated fairly.
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Where on earth did you get all that crap from?
We did no such thing and Livi had 130 fans there.
From Scotsman last week, I did however misread the part about waving/deducting expenses, but only 108 fans actually paid.
McGruther had appealed to the supporters to turn out yesterday at Palmerston Park for the Alba Cup match against Queen of the South. He had hoped that a good response from the fans would bring in a cash infusion, even after Queens deducted expenses and their 50 per cent share of the 1,558 gate in Dumfries.
At kick-off in the club's first and last competitive match of the season yesterday, precisely 108 people sat in the area of the stadium reserved for the away support. Add a gaggle of directors and hangers-on and chairman Massone, and there were probably 130 fans of Livingston in Palmerston Park – a tenth of what was needed.
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With a couple of exceptions I've been at all the away games and I can tell you that there may have been one or two occasions where we had less than 100 supporters present, but Aberdeen isn't one of them.
I recall a big story in the Sun saying we had 73 at a game there when Caley Thistle played there, but it was about double that. I help run one of the buses (which was full that day), there was another bus and a number of people travelled up independently.
I know we haven't got a big support by any means, but to suggest we regularly have fewer than 100 people at away games is just not the case.
After a rallying call by McGruther for fans to turn up at Palmerston last week, as QoS had waved their expenses and with the gate actually being split 50-50, only 108 Livi fans turned up. At a time that was seen as a last chance saloon it showed to me just what little loyal supporters Livi actually have.
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Today, a room at Hampden Park. 2pm.
SFL: "Hi Mr McGruther. Oh, hello Mr McDougall, Mr Nixon and Mr....Rankine, you're here as well? Oh well, the more the merrier."
Coffee is poured and the hobnobs are passed around. Chit-chat forms around the weather, the big M74 crane and Celtic being beaten in europe.
SFL: "Ok Mr McGruther, can Livingston fulfil their fixtures this season?"
McGruther: "Well, no. The club is hopelessly insolvent and I can't even guarantee getting them through to the weekend. I have already started laying off admin staff. Debts are £1.7m and the owner Angelo Massone has refused to sell his shares for £25k. He has even refused to sell after having the deadline extended."
SFL: "I see. Well as you have said liquidation is the next step, we will have to revoke the club's SFL membership. Too bad."
McGruther: "Well..."
SFL: "Did you say something Mr McGruther?"
McGruther: "Well, how is this for a plan. The three men beside me are going to work together for the good of the club. Mr McDougall and Mr Rankine have agreed to fund the club for a year and in that time will try and persuade Angelo to sell his shares, thus giving them control of the club. If not, we would need the SFL to change the rules regarding the transfer of league membership so that we could wind up Livingston FC plc next summer and transfer membership to Livingston 2010 FC or something like that, dodging those pesky creditors in the process."
SFL: "You aren't suggesting we just pretend Massone doesn't exist and allow the club to continue in its present shambolic state in the hope that the idiot Italian eventually goes home are you?"
McGruther: "Yes. Furthermore, you won't have to worry about inconveniencies such as promoting two clubs at five minutes' notice and running nine-team leagues. And should the rule change take place, your members can run up as much debt as they like knowing there is a tasty wee escape route built into the rulebook."
SFL: "My oh my. What a deal! Never mind what the great unwashed think. Never mind that Livi stayed in the first division last season on false pretences by signing players and "eventually" paying wages they couldn't afford ahead of paying the rent and paying the taxman. Never mind that they virtually brought the game into disrepute. Never mind that you have already been in administration and not learned their lesson. Never mind that they have left small businesses in the county whistling in the dark..."
McGruther: "I like your style."
SFL: "And I like yours. We will baffle everyone with technicalities saying that Livi aren't even in administration or liquidation! You are only here Mr McGruther because, er, well you are a good man, that's why."
Rankine (leaning in, spotty tie captivating a clearly excited Brown McMaster): "Do we have a wee deal here by the way?"
SFL: "You're damn right we do! Brilliant stuff. I'll fetch my bottle of Glenfiddich and we can have a toast. Well done chaps! I thought I would have a tough decision to make today..."
All that can be heard behind closed doors is the sound of laughter and glasses clunking.
Probably scarily accurate and actually hits home just how ridiculous the situation has been handled.
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The last thing I wanted to see was a club go to the wall, but as has been said this latest decision stinks, and sends a message to the rest of Scottish Football that you can do as you like !
The English Football League have set rules about administration and are not afraid to re-evaluate them instantly should clubs try bend them in their favour i.e Southampton. Decision's are made hours after the clubs declare administration. The SFL however take weeks to say anything then come up with half a decision. Livi can play in Div 1 but with further discussion about a penalty etc. Shambolic.
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Hope the b*****ds get a hefty point deduction. Will be a disgrace if they don't.
Watch for the Livi fans and new board mumping about vendettas should a penalty be imposed, Ten points minimum and transfer embargo for the SFL to try and salvage some credibility. Knowing the useless commitee it will be a suspended fine.
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Yes that's right. Geoff Brown is to Saints what Calum 'Calum' Melville is to Dundee. What a ridiculous post.
It was a question, hence the ? I was under the impression that Brown personally bankrolled some of Saints wages fund. St. Johnstone are not renowned for a massive fan base. If I am wrong then fair enough St. Johnstone must do really well from commercial activites.
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I'd echo everything NorthBank has said. Several years ago Geoff Brown said, effectively, that Livingston were heading for trouble. He said the same about Gretna. Both times he was slated and branded as being jealous. Both times he was entirely correct. St Johnstone and St Mirren supporters are lucky to support well run clubs, and I have no doubt that in time that will pay huge dividends for both. At the very least, they'll be the two who aren't being chased to the death by the banks in the way that Killie and Clyde probably will be in the very near future.
Does Geoff Brown not pump hundreds of thousands of pounds into Saints wages fund each season? All though this seems like a well run club but, if like Dundee with Melville, Brown decides to end his association then St. J are left with contracts they cannot afford. Both on a smaller scale than Gretna but risky nonetheless.
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Has McGruther spoken today and outlined just exactly what the situation is now that Massone refused to sell, have liquidation preceedings started yet because that would definitley mean expulsion from the SFL. Or has a new extended deadline been set.
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£25k from Mr McDougall I guess
It mentioned on STV that if Livi survived,it is expected that Gary Bollan and Brian Welsh (McDougall's son in law) will take over as a managment team, so pretty safe to assume.
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From BBC website
page last updated at 16:47 GMT, Monday, 27 July 2009 17:47 UK
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League prepares for Livi demise
Livingston are in danger of going out of business this week
Second Division Airdrie United and Cowdenbeath of the Third Division would be the beneficiaries if Livingston go bust before the season begins.
BBC Scotland has learned that the Scottish Football League proposes to promote the two clubs, both of whom lost league play-offs last season.
There would not be enough time to add to the nine teams in Division Three.
Livi will go into liquidation unless owner Angelo Massone sells his shares for £25,000 by Wednesday lunchtime.
The Court of Session appointed administrator Mazars on Friday, following a move by the local council to recover £330,000 from the West Lothian club.
Livingston have been informed that they are in breach of the SFL rules regarding the potential disruption of the league programme.
If they do survive the threat of liquidation, the SFL could opt to deduct points or fine the First Division club, relegate them to the Third Division or expel them from the league.
Airdrie United finished second bottom of Division One in the last league campaign and were relegated when they lost the play-off final to Second Division Ayr United.
Cowdenbeath were beaten by Stenhousemuir in a penalty shoot-out in the Division Two play-off final.
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I agree with you, I am just worried that Livis' fate if they avoid liquidation could be decided by clubs like my own,Airdrie,Raith etc where there is no gaurantee that a desicion will be made for the right reasons.,
We should look after ourselves this time as we have sacrificed our Premier League status for the greater good of Scottish Football once before, and look where that got us and the rest of Scottish Football.
No doubt our board will give it the old "turkeys voting for Christmas" routine again, then watch us get relegated.
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The New Raith Rovers Thread
in Scottish Championship General Chatter
Posted
Craig Barr said in an interview a few weeks ago that it was almost certain he would leave. Thinks his preference is part-time also due to starting up a business.