Zazu
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Posts posted by Zazu
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55 minutes ago, YorkshireRover said:
Is it not roughly the way Sheffield United set up a couple of seasons ago when they got promoted (and first season in EPL)? Assume that they weren't the first though and Wilder isn't a maverick genius considering some of his signings.
Lennon's hibs side was doing it 6 months earlier in the second half of the17/18 season with Ambrose and Hanlon.
When we had the ball Ambrose was nearly always further forward than McGeough, and Hanlon was basically given a free role to make overlapping runs out wide, or underlapping runs into the box, with Stevenson dropping back to cover the space he vacated.
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2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:
Bit concerned here at the diminished options in deeper midfield for tonight's game - McLean and Jack out, Fleck with the plague, McTominay being rested. That leaves us with McGinn (a bit less solid and certainly less effective for Scotland at DM), McGregor (good player but only had 1 commanding game for us) and Gilmour (hugely talented but uncapped and probably still physically at a disadvantage).
If this was the Luxembourg game tonight I'd start Gilmour and McGinn with Turnbull ahead, but against Holland I think we need a bit more certainty in the deeper area.
Result doesn't hugely matter, of course, but I'd hate for us to get run over. Important to keep the morale at a good level before the tourney starts in earnest.I think McGregor and McGinn as a double pivot would work fine.
McGregor playing as the deep lying playmaker, taking the ball from the centre backs and playing progressive passes between the lines, and McGinn as the more aggressive box-to-box player, pressing higher up the pitch, doing more running and making late forward runs.
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He will surely go now that McLean is injured.
In the last few squads its seemed to me like Mclean was backup to McGregor for the deep lying playmaker role. Gilmour is the only other Scottish player composed, technical and press resistant enough to easily slot in to that position in the side.
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2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
Just a selection of the absolutely terrible takes from the first two years of this thread.
Some of these are proper gold. Absolutely horrendous takes, his quality was always there so see and combined with his attitude he was always going to go far.
Meanwhile now you've got Arsenal fans all over twitter and their main forum saying he's the most likeable player in the squad, should be captain, the most important player in the starting 11 etc.
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8 hours ago, Ludo*1 said:
The only one pushing that narrative will be yourself.
No-one actively wants McGregor to come out of retirement bar Rangers fans. In saying that, probably not many Rangers fans care enough either, it's just you continually touting it.
I'm a massive hibs fan and absolutely despise Allan McGregor but wouldn't be opposed to him coming out of retirement for the Euros. Has been immense the past couple of seasons.
Our GK options are really poor IMO, after right back its maybe our biggest problem area? Marshall is obviously a hero for his penalty saves, but his career the past few years hasn't been anything special.
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Love McGinn, but think he could do with a rest.
Would like to see Palmer again, as apart from skinning Alaba once O'donnel hasn't impressed me at all going forward recently.
Marshall
Palmer-Hanley-Tierney-Roberston
Armstrong-McTominay-McGregor-Fraser
Adams-Nisbet
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14 hours ago, Aufc said:
I always find it funny when people say 5-3-2 is a negative tactic. It is similar to when people automatically think if you play 4-4-2 you are going to score more. A formation is just that. Something for the commentators to mark out each player before a game. However, throughout the different phases of the game, a team can have so many different formations that are led off from the initial 5-3-2. Within seconds, it can become a 3-4-3 etc. People get bogged down in formations but they are pretty unimportant if the team is taught to be fluent between the different phases
You're 100% right, but I think a lot of people have an issue with Clarke's 3-5-2 as even when we are playing against 'weaker' teams, it is setup very defensively with a flat back 5 in most phases of play, and 2 centre mids sitting very deep, even when we're in possession.
I've never seen us play the 3-5-2/3-4-3 under Clarke without it being like that, so understand why people are apprehensive about us playing the same system against the faroes.
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1 hour ago, BingMcCrosby said:
We tried that formation last year against them, 43 times with no success.
To some peoples absolute astonishment I hope we change it.
I'd like to see a traditional 442 with fraser and Armstrong wide.
That could be a good shout.
Our standard 3-5-2/3-4-3 has looked solid against teams slightly better than us on paper (Austria, Czech republic, Serbia), and helped us get results against them. But when playing it against Israel recently we haven't made anywhere near enough chances.
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Marshall
McTominay-McKenna/Hanley-Tierney
Palmer-McGinn-McGregor-Robertson
Armstrong
any 2 of Adams Dykes Fraser up top.
Is what I'd personally like to see.
Think Clarke will stick with O'donnel and potentially not play Armstrong.
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14 hours ago, Marshmallo said:
I reckon it will be:
Marshall
O'Donnell McTominay Gallagher Tierney Robertson
McGregor McGinn McLean
Fraser Dykes
Probably very close to what the actual line up will be, however I don't think both McLean and McGregor will start.
I may be wrong, but I can't remember Clarke ever using them both in the pitch at the same time? It seems to me that McLean is backup to McGregor for the 'deep lying playmaker' role in midfield, with Jack doing more running and pressing (Fleck has seemed to be the backup for this role).
Don't think Fleck will start, so think it will either be McTominay moving into midfield, or McGinn moving a bit deeper to play Jack's role, with Armstrong going in at 10. Don't think It would work as well with McLean playing as the more combative pressing ball winner and don't think Clarke would fancy that either. But McGinn or McTominay could both play Jack's role very well imo.
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11 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:
I don’t think Gallagher can play the RCB role at this level tbh. Hardly played, and needs the protection offered to him in the middle where he can just header and kick things.
If Hendry has genuinely improved I think he is the alternative to McTominay. Right footed, plenty of pace and far better on the ball than the other options. Sure we’ll find out soon enough if he has improved though.
Was just about to post saying that.
The system in recent games has relied on McTominay being able to effectively progress the ball from deep on our right hand side. No way is Gallagher technically good enough to play this role for us. If Gallagher plays in the back 3 it has to be in the middle. Think that's why Hendry is in the squad, as he will be able to do that if McTominay goes into midfield for any of the games.
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7 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:
While he's not the best player in it, Jack is probably the worst player to lose in the midfield. We have no one who can do that holding job to the same level; obviously if we move McTominay into midfield then we've put a better player than Jack in there, but we'd then have the sitting two performing a different role with more emphasis on going box to box and less on protecting the defence. Maybe that'd end up working anyway, but take anyone else out and we can still play the same way with personnel on the same level to take their place. Then there's McLean and Fleck who just aren't as good.
Get what you're saying, but in the last few games Jack was a bit further forward up the pitch than McGregor a lot of the time. For all he was still playing quite a defensive role, he was pressing quite high when we didn't have the ball and pushing forward at times to support O'donnel when we were in possession.
If we put McGinn or McTominay in there next to McGregor to play that role I don't think the team loses too much defensive stability. And it also provides us with more technical ability in midfield.
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5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
Why wouldn't Fleck be in the squad? He's been in most squads recently and has generally been fine when he has played.
Can see why he's there, but personally I'd like to see McGinn deeper playing in Jacks role (which Fleck is backup for), which lets us get two out of Armstrong, Christie, Fraser into the starting XI.
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1 hour ago, G51 said:
I have watched Kerr, that's why I'm asking the question. He's not got the ball progression skills of McTominay or Tierney, so I don't see the advantage of effectively swapping Jack or McGregor for Kerr. I'm not sure I see the argument for him as a backup either, but then I'm not fully convinced by any of the backup options at outside CB.
Agree on Porteous - touched on it in the Patterson thread, but we need players who are good decision makers. They can't self-destruct by giving away stupid fouls in dangerous areas. The Scotland gameplan works providing we don't kill ourselves with bad decisions. Patterson will likely improve his decision making with experience, but Porteous has played over 100 professional games now and he's still rash as hell. It's what is stopping him from making the next step up.
Not saying he should be in the squad, but Porteous has massively improved that side of his game this season. In previous years I'd have agreed with you but his tendency for poor decision making and silly fouls in dangerous areas has reduced a lot this year. If he can keep improving that mental aspect of his game I could see him being a regular in the squad in a year or two.
He's one of the better CBs in the league this season in terms of not giving away fouls, with a a fouls per game of 0.7 which is equal to Jason Kerr and much less than Considine and Gallagher who will both be in the squad. I don't have the stats for previous seasons but would imagine that it would have been much higher - there were times when he first broke through that he seemed to be giving away several silly fouls per game.
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On 02/03/2021 at 18:26, 8MileBU said:
Brian Kerr
Richard Hughes
Jay McEveley
Gary Teale
Paul Devlin
Did Brian Kerr get a full cap!?
The thought of that gives me the fear.
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8 hours ago, craigkillie said:
We do not "only have 6-8 guaranteed picks for every squad". If fit, every single one of the following would be guaranteed to be in the squad.
Marshall, Robertson, Tierney, McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Jack, Armstrong, Fraser, Forrest, Christie, Dykes.
That's 12 players.
On top of that, nearly everyone would have Gordon, Cooper, Gallagher, McKenna and O'Donnell in their squad for the finals, which takes us to 17. Clarke will pick McBurnie, which makes it 18.
That means there are only a handful of fringe places up for grabs, which I don't think is a problem at all.I wouldn't personally have Gallagher or O'donnell as nailed on picks after their form for Motherwell this season.
However they both played well in getting us to the finals so understand why many folk would.
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Think Gilmour should definitely start getting into the squad, even if only as back-up/rotation option to MacGregor in the deep lying playmaker role. Love watching Gilmour play, always appreciate players like him who can take the ball from the defense and beat opposition midfielders 1 on 1 easily in tight central areas without losing the ball (similiar to thiago, Cazorla, Moussa dembele at spurs).
In terms of the midfield balance in the short term, I would still like to see McGinn moved into Jack's position as a deeper ball winning box to box midfielder, which would let us play Armstrong or Christie at number 10. Maybe not against Austria or Denmark but in all the other qualifying matches I think this would be our best option - McGinn is better offensively than Jack but is still a great tackler and can put a good shift in.
Think McTominay should stay in the back 3 for now, he has had some great performances for Man U but he often looks clumsy on the half turn when he is pressed. Isn't the most agile at getting his big frame turned 180 degrees when receiving the ball. In the back 3 this isn't an issue as he is facing play the whole time allowing us to better utilise his passing ability and his athleticism to carry the ball into space during the transition.
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Tierney definitely won't play at right wing back, he'll slot back in on the left of the back 3 where he's been excelling for Arsenal and is becoming a real fan favourite.
Think the back 5 picks itself apart from at RWB which could be O'Donnell, Palmer or a more offensive player in Forrest or Fraser.
And maybe the middle centre back where there could be an argument for starting Cooper over Gallagher. I know Gallagher has looked really solid these past few games but Cooper is higher quality imo, and captain of one of the best teams in the EPL so far this season. I keep having nightmares of Gallagher having a 5 minutes against Serbia similar to his mad spell that put Motherwell out of the Europe league. To make those two mistakes in the same few minutes is unforgivable, some terrible decision making that cost Motherwell the chance of a great result in Europe. Never seen Cooper do anything like that when watching Championship highlights.
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Just now, Scary Bear said:
Who missed out who is superior? If we’ve found a team that gets results why change it?
Cooper and Tierney are better options than Gallagher and Considine for the back 3. I don't really see how that can be disputed tbh.
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7 minutes ago, ArabFC said:
Unless Clarke decides to deploy Forrest at RWB, none of the above will be in the starting XI. Fraser, McGinn and Dykes have got the 3 attacking berths wrapped up.
I could see Clarke moving McGinn into a deeper box-to-box role and putting Armstrong or Christie at 10.
Kinda hope that's what he does as well tbh.
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37 minutes ago, Jambomo said:
Same again as this round. Everyone deserves to keep their place.
Tierney, Armstrong and Christie are three of our best players and only missed out due to unluckiness with COVID.
All three will be back in the squad.
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8 minutes ago, Aufc said:
Clarke is getting results by making us hard to beat. Why the f**k would he put forrest in at right wing back? Has he played it for celtic in europe? He is not particularly defensive. It will be palmer or o’donnell in there.
As mentioned previously, declan gallagher may have played himself into a starting position. This may not be a bad thing as then mctominay could push into midfield.
Also ryan fraser played very well last night but you have dropped him for griffiths who is only just back. His pace is vital
The team may look like this
Marshall
Gallagher cooper tiernay
Palmer mctominay mcgregor robertson
Mcginn fraser
DykesI think he'll keep McTominay in the back 3, he's looked good there the last two games, is much more comfortable with the ball at his feet than any of our centre-backs and we have a bunch of good central midfielders already anyway. I get the logic of moving him into midfield and wouldn't be opposed to it but I can't see Clarke changing that now.
I like Ryan Fraser but he's not really a striker and Griffiths is much more likely to get us a goal out of nothing. I did say "fitness dependent" in my original post so if he keeps on not getting game time for Celtic and isn't 100% match fit then I'd obviously still have Fraser in.
Forrest has played right wing back several times for Celtic and done well there. He played there in a few qualifying games this season and has also done it effectively against stronger teams with Celtic as the underdog, playing excellently there when they won away to Lazio. If he can do it there then he can do it for Scotland, I really don't rate Palmer.
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Serbia just lost 1-0 at home to Hungary, the underdog mentality might work in our favour but I don't think we should be fearing them too much.
Assuming Clarke stays with the same system then fitness depending this is the team I'd like to see:
Marshall
McTominay-Cooper-Tierney
Forrest-McGregor-McGinn-Robertson
Armstrong
Dykes-Griffiths.
As much as I love him, I don't like McGinn in the number 10 role that much, and think he is better suited to playing a bit deeper where it is easier for him to win the ball back and he has more space to progress the ball by running at the opposition. Feel like Armstrong or Christie would provide a bit more finesse and creativity in that position than McGinn.
Forrest at RWB is maybe a bit too attacking for such an important fixture against a decent side away from home, but he's played the role well in Europe for Celtic and would be infinitely better going forward the O'Donnel.
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13 minutes ago, oranjyboom said:
Big fan of Considine. Why not Gallagher him and Cooper as the three? Slow possibly...but McTominay in midfield. second half was really positive, please always play Dykes and not McBurnie
You'd start considine who doesn't always get a game for Aberdeen over Tierney who has been playing excellently for arsenal in the exact same position?
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vs Netherlands
in Tartan Army Ramblings
Posted · Edited by Zazu
I agree with a lot of this post, but I think you're over simplifying midfield roles here with the bit I've put in bold. Central midfield roles aren't just 'defensive 'or 'creative' anymore imo.
In many successful teams Europe wide in the last decade or so, the deepest midfielder isn't primarily a defensive ball winner, and doesn't get forward enough to create many chances. Their role is to always provide an out ball to the defense, and to progress the ball through the oppositions first line of a press or block either through incisive passing to the final third or the occasional dribble. At the risk of being unfairly called out for using buzzwords again: the 'deep lying playmaker role'. See Pirlo when at Milan, Cazorla at Arsenal when he got moved deeper, McGeouch at hibs 17/18, Jorginho in the current Chelsea side. All these players played as the deepest player in the midfield, staying back during attacks and always close to the defense, even though they all had a much more aggressive ball winner next to them who would generally play higher up (Gatusso, Coquelin, McGinn, Kante). Just cause a midfielder plays deep doesn't make them 'defensive' in my eyes.
MacGregor is nearly always the deepest midfielder for Scotland, even when he plays with Jack. He's played this role well for Scotland in some games, and in others it has ended up with a lot of sideways passing and no real urgency or incision, but at times I think this had been due to a lack of movement or options in front of him. He's definitely had some poor games playing this way for Scotland, but I'm not sure who else I'd trust in that role - I don't think Jack, McGinn, or McTominay have the agility and balance to constantly be playing on the half turn when under a high press, nor the composure to always retain the ball and usually pick the right pass when under pressure. I think Scotland's most balanced double pivot is McGregor with one of those 3 players, depending on the opposition and if McGinn or McTominay are needed to play elsewhere. When McGinn and McTominay were the double pivot recently we really struggled to progress the ball through the midfield from defense, and resorted to lumping it to Dykes even more than usual.
I think Gilmour will take over this role from McGregor, hopefully soon as I think he is a real talent, but not sure he is ready yet so think it will be McGregor playing it each game in the Euros.