crazylegsjoe_mfc

I only read the thread after the game last night, some of the overreaction was hilarious at half time. It was very clear to me that Gent and Vale were being "managed" or "rested" rather than dropped. Poor goal to lose (Casey again) in the first half, but as much as we weren't amazing, I didn't think we were ever far out it. The second half we were great, getting 45 minutes out of Vale when the game had opened up was the best way to use him last night. SOD had a hand in both goals and a terrific defensive header. At times, Miller looks so good it makes it appear like he is the experienced player and everyone else is 17. The bad news about Spittal is that with every passing week, we know he won't be here next season. The good news about Spittal is that with every passing week, we know he won't be at St. Mirren next season. I criticised Kettlewell for his use of subs on Sunday, so only fair to credit him for them last night. Blaney coming on for Devine and being a straight swap rather than rejigging everything was refreshing, hopefully that was a learning from Sunday. It is possible to be critical about something that Kettlewell has done, without questioning whether he should still be manager, by the way

We obviously had such a surplus of centre backs as well as going all out to sign Casey this summer. I do wonder what we would have done had he not come back at the 11th hour - I wonder if we would have gone out to sign someone or whether the plan was to play Lamie or Blaney. Sadly between injury and form, we've not quite seen the Casey of last season.

I agree that Turnbull's style probably is more suited to playing somewhere like Italy or Germany than it is for the rough and tumble of the Championship or the likes. He might have only had concrete offers from Norwich or Celtic, but the "wee guy" in him probably made it clear to his agent from the get go that he didn't want to move far from home, so no feelers were put out. On the other hand, Johnston's agent probably new he fancied it abroad and was therefore pimping him out right, left and centre to European clubs.

I just voted against the Well Society losing it's majority shareholding. I didn't join instantly myself. From memory it was £300 to join in the beginning before they started monthly memberships and the fact that I was a student at the time, coupled with the fact that team was class meant that £300 from any Motherwell budget would be going on away days or euro trips back then. If I'm honest, after that, for a few years, I wasn't as interested or engaged in joining, until I did so just before the pandemic. I'm still very pragmatic about fan ownership - if I think it's the best solution I'll be for it, if I think it's not I'll be against it - but for us, I genuinely think the 'Well Society having a majority shareholding is what is best for the club. Say the club sold it to a wealthy man, with no ulterior motives or red flags. They could run the club successfully for a period of time, but that won't last forever. At that point, they will want to sell the club for the best deal possible and probably won't be concerned who to and us as fans won't have a say in it. That's what sells it to me - having a say in this investor, the next investor and the one after that. Looking at the figures @capt_oats posted of our P&L since being fan owned, it's actually fairly encouraging. Getting to two cup finals in one season and selling David Turnbull does appear to have helped us run for a few years and had we not had to do the structural work and then subsequently fix it, things would be looking very kind on the bank. It's really hard to be overly critical of finances, when we have money in the bank and generally remained in the black due to the aforementioned cup finals and player sales, which is actively our model. Not to mention surviving a pandemic and giving free season tickets out the following year. My obvious concerns around that model going forward are how much we shit the bed in cup competitions and how much Brexit has affected our youth players even reaching the stage where they get to a professional contract for us. Part of me does think that we are seeing Lennon Miller in our first team just now because his Dad was a pro himself and seems to have his head screwed on to advise him on what's best for his career. I reckon most others in his shoes would've taken the McAlear / Leitch / McKinstry route by now. I also have doubts about our ability to "buy to sell" in today's market, given Slattery and Kelly's three year deals look like they will be seen out without any serious interest. I am definitely of the thought that a hybrid model of the society and outside investment is the best thing going forward. I have serious concerns about growth in the society. In thirteen years, surely there are very fine margins to be gained by new members? I'd imagine just about everyone interested would've signed up now. Are we reliant on current members upping their monthly payment? With the area not being the most affluent and the climate we are in, there might not be the biggest scope for this. I also think in so many ways the horse has bolted in terms of re-engaging disengaged fans. I do also think that it would be a tough sell for someone with no link to the club to invest, without getting the biggest say for it. Ultimately, if we continue to go down The Well Society route, we might see a drop in our standard of player, we may see us drop divisions and find it tough to come back, but at the end of the day we'll still have the club. As much as it may not appeal to others, that's good enough for me.

I think the nearly half of the 22 is the bit I find most annoying. I also think the three windows to make subs is in some ways worse and lead to so many double subs, that should be single subs, but a manager doesn't want to lose one from his quota. If you think about wing backs alone, O'Donnell has been subbed on 5 times and subbed off 10 times and Gent has been subbed on 8 times and subbed off 4 times. I know we play a back three and the games changed, but it wasn't so long ago you only changed a defender if he was either rotten or injured.

I also think him coming off the bench and getting up to speed is probably more challenging than him starting a game. I thought he was regaining a bit of form pre Pittodrie, but there's some definite regressing again.

There's no doubt that people would be on here asking for subs had they not happened, but for me, disorganisation cost us more than tiredness. But suppose the five subs do need to take place when they did: 74 minutes - Vale and Casey need to be withdrawn. Bring on Nicholson and Blaney and the other 9 players stay where they are. 84 minutes - Devine and Miller need to be withdrawn. Bring O'Donnell on for Devine, Shaw on for Miller and move Spittal (rather than Nicholson) back into midfield with Davor. 89 minutes - if Gent has to go off, surely Elliot could just about see out stoppage time with a settled defence. I imagine we prepared for this game with players in a shape and structure we planned to play in. We went from making no changes in the first 74 minutes to ending the game with only 3 of our 10 outfield players in the position they started the game in so I would definitely say there's merit in the shout that changes were at least part of our undoing. Of course, Wednesday is the bigger game but it's still helluva frustrating not to take anything from today.

None of the back five finished the game in the position they started. If Casey had to come off (I know he took a knock but he came off moving freely) then bring Blaney on and it's a straight swap, no disruption needed. Did both full backs really need to come off? Did Miller really have to come off? If he did, obviously not having Halliday or Paton fit threw a spanner in the works. I know I've laboured the point about using Spittal in a place we get the best out of him, but surely moving him back made more sense than sticking Nicholson back? I think we've made 5 subs today because we could, not because we needed to.

The only grounds I've seen Motherwell at, and not seen us win are a bizarre trio of Celtic Park, Firhill and Somerset Park. Firhill probably the most painful of them all, as it's the one I've been to most frequently. I think we've only really won once there in my time (5-1 at Christmas time in 2013). We got beaten 4-0 in a preseason game with Ayr, believe it or not before one of, if not the best season, I've ever seen us have. That's the only time I've been there.

Joe Efford as well. We tried all summer to get rid of someone, we all thought was out of contract in May.

Regardless of my view on what he's done well, what he's done badly and what's been out of his control, I actually feel really sorry for Ketts on how this has new has been presented. The club could have and should have announced this at the end of the last season, when the extension kicked in. I'm sure eyebrows would have been raised, given what happened with Alexander's extension, but surely there's no better time to announce it? Obviously, due to form, but mainly because that was when it was kicking in? There are obviously two very different ways to look at our form. The optimists will say 2 defeats in 10, the pessimists 2 wins in 22 - but I'm sure even the most glass half-full among us would agree that a contract extension announcement for any manager with the latter stat is only going to heap more unwanted pressure on him. He now has to navigate the rest of the season with many of the supporters now not only just raging about our form, but now also raging that he has a contract extension.

I've just saw that Jili Buyabu has returned to Sheffield United for personal reasons. Very on 2023/24 brand to sign two left-backs in January to play a cup game each.

Who knows, in another era, him and Sutton could've bonded over the COVID vaccine and created a relationship between him and the senior players. To hand it to him, his recruitment was phenonmenal with us. Jutkiewicz, Ruddy, Hateley, Coke, Humphrey and Jennings were all good signings. Then there was Moutaouakil, but I'll give him that one based on him being the former France under 21 captain who had lots of big teams after him a few years previously.

I think where my beef lies with the Mugabi & Paton situation more than anything is that I'm sure we'd all agree that both of them fit the profile we'd expect of a Motherwell squad player but here we are with Mugabi having started 22/26 games and Paton 20/26. Don't get me wrong, there are games in there where both have had to start due to numbers, but on a good day I'd consider both to be "decent" rather than "outstanding", so now we have a bench full of first team players, rather than strikers & kids, surely there's no need to use them as much. Even with that said, I'd comfortably say we're now in a position to say that Davor should have started some of the games that Paton did. So many times yesterday, our shape looked like a straight 5-4-1, if we were lining up like that with little intention to attack, we'd have been as well starting Buyabu and SOD instead of Paton and Vale. I don't mind that 3-4-2-1 is his preferred shape and that's how we're likely to start most games, but yesterday it was just crying out for us to change the shape when we were down.

Had completely forgotten about him!

Aye, I'm generally with you there. This summer, he should have a black canvas in terms of what he wants to bring in and he should be able to hit the ground running in terms of when they sign - late May, early June etc. This summer he was somewhat hamstrung by the fact he had to shift players to get players in and as a result, that would have made a lot about timing. Next season, by my reckoning we only have Blaney here next season who wasn't signed or given a new contract by Kettlewell, so it will definitely be his own team. There's is, however, a vision I have lingering at the back of my mind, where his new team don't gel as quickly as our impatient support would like in the league cup group section and the atmosphere becomes toxic and people start quoting the 1 win in 19 etc from this season.

Following on from @Handsome_Devil's point re Jack Ross and Hibs. Since the start of last season: Dundee United sacked Jack Ross and sacked his replacement. St. Johnstone sacked Callum Davidson and sacked his replacement. Ross County sacked Malky Mackay and sacked his replacement. Rangers sacked Giovanni Van Bronckhorst and sacked his replacement. Aberdeen sacked Jim Goodwin and sacked his replacement. We sacked Graham Alexander and sacked his replacement. The obvious caveat to that is that Martindale has been at Livi all of that time and look where they are, but looking at that list it basically tells you that the more that managers are sacked, the more that they need to be sacked. That also shows you that boards across the country are making the wrong appointments time and time again. Chuck into the mix that we either have the board we do just now, or an unknown quantity in a new CEO / Chairman who would be making the decisions. That's why it's a big call and there is a bit of me that does think the "better the devil you know" route might be the most sensible. I would need to be confident about a new manager to think it was worthwhile. That said, if he does stay, the number of players he would need to sign, as things stand, could have a knock on effect on the club for years to come, so that is also a big consideration to make.

I actually think Clark staying in at Hearts makes it less likely for Kelly to go to the Euros. Gunn is a shoe in. Clark is going to finish 3rd and has already shown to be favoured by Steve Clarke. I'd then say, regardless of games played, I'd take the old experienced head who's done it at the highest level, over the goalie with one cap who's been hemorrhaging goals for a team fighting relegation.

That was the one which sprung to mind for me. There's obviously the famous Man Utd one where Jim Leighton got dropped for the FA Cup Final replay for Les Sealey. Ferguson said that Sealey's confidence compensated for him being a lesser goalkeeper than Leighton with the state of mind Leighton was in. I guess it depends what kind of character Oxborough is in that scenario.

Graham Alexander never had a three goal lead in the league as Motherwell manager, never mind one after 27 minutes at Pittodrie, so it's an utterly pointless discussion to have.

I'm trying to cast my mind back to how we reacted in all of those games we were 3-0 up under Alexander.

With 12 draws, we're now at our 2nd highest total since the 38 game league started in 2000 (with 13 games of the season to go). The only time we've drawn more was under Brown / Gannon in 2009/10, a stat which doesn't surprise me. 7 points clear of County and 13 points clear of tells me that it's growing more and more unlikely we will go down. We've lost one game in nine. Do you hear of teams going down with stats like that? I can't really remember hearing of teams in the thick of it in April and May because they'd drawn too many games. My biggest annoyance is that we seemed more organised and resolute against St. Johnstone, Killie and Ross County, only to have seemingly undone all of that in the last week, with everyone back to being a quivering wreck every time the ball goes near our box. Kelly was every ounce a man absolutely stripped of confidence tonight and as I said yesterday, it appears to rub off on those around him.

It's somewhat nicer to remember the opposition goalie blundering than your own Aberdeen fans may correct me but Joe Lewis seemed to save his bad games for us. He looked perfectly capable against other teams when I saw him.

I might be miles out and others might disagree, but my perception of Kelly is that his performances often reflect the mood in the camp. When we are doing well (his loan spell, the run-in last season, when Alexander was shitfesting wins), you tend either to not notice him, or only hear good things about him. As soon as the chips are down and we are playing badly, he seems more likely then to make things worse than better and that's when all of his mistakes come out. Goalkeeper and captain are two roles who you need to step-up during a crisis. Unfortunately, ours is the same guy and he doesn't. On another topic, had a chuckle at this sentence. Looks like the club asked ChatGPT to write them a jargon-heavy, sophistocated sentence about a financial / data partnership. This strategic collaboration will empower us with cutting-edge analytics tools and invaluable financial insights, propelling the club into a new era of data-driven decision-making.

Even at our worst in the league earlier this season, I've more or less been of the "better the devil you know" mindset with Kettlewell. I wouldn't trust the board to successfully replace him, but then again we don't know who the board will be come May. What does make me torn though is that a finish of 10th or above come the end of the season, probably meets our expectations, but represents a good time for a natural parting of ways. Much like it was with Alexander a couple of seasons ago, which failure to part ways caused many of the issues we find ourselves in now. With the number of players we will need to sign in the summer, I could see them not gelling right away (or even being in the door in time), us having a toxic league cup campaign and the pitchforks being out for Kettlewell before the league campaign has taken off. Whatever happens it's a very crucial call to make.