Aim Here

Are you saying that the staunch fighting words I'm reading on JKB are just a bunch of dafties spouting grandiose pish? Say it's not so...

Relegated teams are the ones punished financially in a normal season. That's how it works. All in the game, yo! The three clubs certainly were served as respondents. The petition document explicitly states that outright. And their defence can diverge from that of the SPFL. It already has, in fact (as per the motion to dismiss). It would be legally and financially reckless for the clubs to trust the SPFL's defence to represent them. For instance, the SPFL has far less incentive to fight an unrelegation; they can choose to settle by cancelling relegation with little or no cost to themselves, but with a supposed £10 million cost to United and Raith, if Hearts and Thistle's Fantasy Island figures are to be believed. If they're not paying the lawyers, the lawyers aren't likely to be acting in their interests.

They should have known that litigation expenses would have been the consequences when they went ahead and <checks notes> won football matches.

If only United would lie down and accept not being promoted - then it wouldn't have cost them that £75-100k in legal costs (assuming Hearts don't pick up the tab, that is). Instead, it'd only cost them the price of being stuck in the Championship as opposed to the Premiership. A measly £8 million, last time anyone looked...

You got me. I'm jealous of not being milked rotten for cash by Hearts, and of Heart's subsequent success on the pitch. Not to mention the incisive legal acumen on display in Kickback. If only we could all be more like you guys.

That's just one of the begging bowls. There's also the 'I'll just leave my bank account details lying around, feel free to pop some money into it, if you want' begging bowl statement from Ann Budge and the 'Here's the Kickstarter for the legal fees' begging bowl from some random fan. Between it being a massive money sink, and the monolithic 'if you're not with us, you're one of the vermin' mindset and the constant state of two-minute hate against suppressive persons other clubs, being a Heart of Midlothian fan right now must be a bit like being a Scientologist. Except with John Robertson instead of Tom Cruise. Have you guys thought about offering personality tests outside of shopping centres to recruit supporters?

They're playing Doncaster away.

Sure. That's merely in addition to Hibs and United playing at home at the same time, though which is a bigger tell that they'll have to redo the entire fixture list.

Hibs and Dundee United playing at home from day 1, and they're not using up each other's New Year's Derby slot. The SPFL is sending a message that they're not expecting to derelegate Hearts.

Fixture 11. The fixture scheduler isn't messing around.

How will we be able to spot the boycotts in that case? Between the folks not showing up because of residual Coronavirus fears, the fairweather fans who can't be arsed going to see second-tier fitba' and the gadgies who've just gotten out of the habit of going to the fitba' after being away for so long, the support's going to be substantially down no matter what. Which empty seats will be the boycotted ones? Or is this just a case of claiming some sort of victory for the boycott, no matter what?

a) Jambos aren't boycotting anyone. The first string of two or three decent results and you'll be off to Dundee and Dumfries in the hundreds, if not thousands b) Boycotting away games doesn't conflict with attacks on away team coaches, either at Tynecastle when Hearts are playing at home or Easter Road (when Hearts are playing away. Read first, then hit the reply button.

In related news, whereabouts does "I want X to fear for their safety" come in terms of the law on threatening behaviour?

BBC Sportsound doesn't have any pundit with "an alternative voice, though". After Neil Doncaster and Donald Findlay ragdolled Tom English on separate occasions, they've decided the best policy is now to have people parroting "That's not fair" at each other on either side of the table. I shut todays podcast off after hearing shite like "You're saying the same thing I am, Chic" and "You put that better than I would have" coming out of the mouths of today's disputants...

He's raisin a serious point though.

I suspect you're wrong. If that's the case, then the bulk of Hearts petition can be dismissed outright. What Hearts wants is a bunch of orders that have the sole effect of changing the SPFL rules, viz:

A mixture of needlessly flattering his audience, catering to their delusions and prejudices and an 'I have no ambitions in that particular direction' statement on being an arbitrator. I'm getting a bit of a campaign trail vibe about this. Is there a Hearts-related public appointment coming up - chairman of FoH or similar? Either that, or it's a silly old man just happy to be listened to for once.

The 'fairness' argument about ending the season early would also bounce back to haunt Hearts; if it's unfair to discard 8 games that weren't played, how much more unfair is it to discard the 30 games that were? Why is it fair that Celtic and Rangers end up with the same amount of prize money as Hearts after they had shown, through sporting merit and with mathematical certainty, that they were definitely going to end up higher placed than Heart of Midlothian? Null and void also potentially ends up with a lawsuit, and one where aggrieved parties can quantify actual losses in financial terms, as opposed to just thinking of a number and doubling it.

The lawyer on Sportsound was pointing out that there's no right of appeal for arbitration, unless there were major procedural issues and the like. Dundee United would presumably be able to fight their corner at the arbitration anyways, as they were a named respondent at the petition.

But if the league was found to have unfairly relegated Hearts, but it's impractical to rectify by unrelegating them, then compensation would be the obvious alternative. The petition doesn't use the word malice at all. It claims that the SPFL acted in a way that was unreasonable - or caused the clubs to act in an unreasonable way. The petition also claims that the clubs voting the wrong way weren't acting in good faith, which I suppose is a bit closer to the whatever is understood by the word 'malice'.

If you don't play any fitba', how can you relegate from the playoff spot? How can you relegate from the playoff spot if you don't play any fitba'?

That explains everything. The slope is there to lure wild haggis onto the playing surface where they can be captured for use in the pies.

Nope. Even if there's sanctions, it'll be financial or a suspension (the latter being extremely unlikely), rather than in-tournament penalties. The SFA won'd dish out in-competition penalties for a tournament it doesn't run, and it would be bad politics for the SPFL to be seen to directly punish teams for trying to sue it.

Stranraer are named respondents in the legal action. Presumably if relegation/promotion is stopped for the three upper tiers, then League One/Two regulation/promotion would also be halted. The petition document doesn't ask for any compensation for them.

P&B's best kept secret is that everyone here posts on Kickback. Apart from the Heart of Midlothian fans of course, who have more sense.