A12A1
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Posts posted by A12A1
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I'm not JH either. Or even related to him. Do I get a prize?
If so, just beat Clyde 13-0 and we can call it quits.
I'm not a greedy man.0 -
He predicts Berwick will be relegated first, and only then successive promotions. I would prefer it the other way round.
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Quite so. Edinburgh took a late season dive to raise Berwick to the heady heights of 8th with 37 points. This season with 3 games to go we have amassed barely half that.Let's not forget we were 8th last year on 37 points, 7 more than Edinburgh, and 15 more than Cowdenbeath. Heady days in comparison to this season's debacle.
Still, Edinburgh have bounced back this year so there's hope yet...0 -
And another thing. For the last 2 seasons Berwick have only survived because another team have plummeted to the bottom and kept 10th place occupied below us.Agreed except that this year there really should be 2 teams going down. Both Berwick and Albion are so far away from 8th it's embarrassing.
But rules is rules and I'll support the team until the end in hopes of better next year.
Last year it was Cowdenbeath. They languished at the bottom all year with 22 points in the end was it?
This year we might not even match that. Yet we still have another team in a death spiral that might yet just about save us from bottom - Albion.
Bottom line is Berwick's problems are not recent and certainly not since JH arrived. And he has to shore up the dykes before even thinking about planting seeds for a better future. It doesn't help to blame him for the state he found them in when he arrived. He looks keen. Let's back him.0 -
Agreed except that this year there really should be 2 teams going down. Both Berwick and Albion are so far away from 8th it's embarrassing.
Relegation has similar costs at every level of the game. If Berwick wanted to ensure that they didn’t experience them then they shouldn’t have sat on their laurels while Albion Rovers were racking up one of the worst first halves of the campaign in modern league history. And they still have their fate in their own hands at every stage in the process from here. If they go down then it’ll have been fully merited and the national league will have a less incompetent replacement. That’s how the system ought to work.
But rules is rules and I'll support the team until the end in hopes of better next year.0 -
Well said. I really don't know how JH or anybody else can motivate a team when the so called supporters are undermining him in public. Shut up and back the team.Good luck to JH and Berwick. He is totally correct. As long as he is still in the position, he has to be positive and everyone at Berwick needs to be positive. It might still end up in relegation, but you never know. Hard as it might be, it's too late now to say what should have happened.
Everyone at Berwick needs to be positive and get behind the team for as long as you can still achieve survival. You all have to believe you will make it and cheer the team on. Being negative at this point is no help at all. When the season is over you can complain all you want, but doing so now just digs you deeper into a hole.
You still have three games to go including the vital home game against Rovers. I don't know what formation JH favours, but he should take risks next week away to Clyde and go on the attack. No point hanging back and losing anyway. Be positive. Look what Alloa have achieved in recent games against full-time teams.
You need a big support for the Rovers game. Let everyone in for a few quid if you have to or free with a donation if they choose. Make as much noise as possible and roar the team on. It's all you can do.1 -
Relax guys. 3 weeks to go. Back the team. Back the manager. Then you get 3 months to moan and whinge as much as you like. This is not that time. This is the time to be strong and back the team.
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I bet this has been JH's secret masterplan all along.No need to worry. All we need to do is win our last 3 games while Albion lose their last 3 and the sfa take back their 3 free points. By my reckoning that makes us safe by 10 points. Easy peasy.0 -
No need to worry. All we need to do is win our last 3 games while Albion lose their last 3 and the sfa take back their 3 free points. By my reckoning that makes us safe by 10 points. Easy peasy.0-3 at home to QP while Rovers get a last minute point away at Peterhead.
We're going to have to gamble on a draw on the 27th and an absent Elgin on the final day of the season. Dont see another way out.1 -
3-0. That's twice as good as last week.
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But there are other sanctions available to deal with this. Dock them 5 points? Relegate them, like Rangers a few years ago?I think you have to give the 3 points to the opposition. Otherwise you can end up with the following situation:
Imagine that the points tallies are the same as they are now, so Albion are 1 point ahead of us. And imagine that the head to head is this Saturday, and it's the last game of the season. If you don't have the sanction of awarding 3 points to the side that plays by the rules, Albion could deliberately decide to field an ineligible player. So you *have* to give the points to the team that was wronged, otherwise you have a situation that effectively rewards cheating.
The same situation could happen at the top of the table, or in the last play-off place too.0 -
That's just the conflict that comes from supporting the team and supporting the game. But ultimately we would all agree that the game has to prevail.If the "bonus" points situation (and hence league positions) was reversed between us and Albion, can any Berwick supporter honestly say, with hand on heart, that they wouldn't be defending us getting the three points from the game where the opposition fielded an ineligible player? I'm not sure that I could...1 -
The problem with a replay, apart from squeezing it in, is that neither team deserves it. Clyde because they are the guilty party and Albion because they would have lost anyway. Why should either get another bite at the cherry?Great post mate. Too reasonable for our governing body to consider though I fear.0 -
What you mean is ARGUABLY suffer. But in the real world we all know Albion would have lost anyway. No team should get free points.
But the innocent opponents are not compensated at all so suffer at the hands of a team playing ineligible players and thus likely a stronger side0 -
Fairly rubbish might be putting it mildly. But it's about the integrity of the league table. No team should have more points than they have won on the pitch. Fewer is okay as punishment for the guilty. But awarding unearned points punishes the innocent rivals whoever they are.We don't deserve another crack at the games. It's unfortunate that Berwick may inadvertently suffer as a consequence of our stupidity but let's face it, they must be fairly rubbish to be in the position they are in anyway. I'm struggling to muster any sympathy for them.1 -
The world is not perfect and we often have to sort the mess out as best we can. It is a virtual nailed on certainty that Albion would have lost anyway.So what you’re saying is the league should use some sort of pools panel system when ineligible players are played? “Ach they are shit anyway so he didn’t change the result. Just keep it as it is”.
Docking points from the guilty team is fair. It's their own fault for breaking the rules. Awarding unearned points to any team is unfair to their rivals in the league who have to win theirs on the pitch.2 -
But it does not follow from that that if he had not been on the pitch Albion would have avoided defeat. They were being beaten by just about everybody at the time.Its not a scandal. An ineligible player set up a goal against Albion Rovers - how should they be compensated? A player that shouldn’t have been on he pitch helped defeat them.0 -
You might be right that you don't deserve the punishment. That is debatable. But the certainty is that Albion don't deserve 3 points that they didn't win on the pitch and Berwick (God forbid) don't deserve to be chucked out of the league by committee after winning it on the pitch.
We didn’t ignore the rules, we recalled our own player from a loan spell at a junior club, outside of the transfer window. An error yes but hardly worthy of the punishment issued.
There are four Saturdays left so 2 midweek games could easily be fitted in, however I don’t think the QP game should be replayed anyway, should stand as a draw.2 -
I suspect you've put your finger on the procedural unfairness there. Clyde will have someone there to argue their case. Maybe Albion too. But is anyone going to be speaking for the other affected teams? Berwick Peterhead Edinburgh? I'd like to know.Whether the original ruling was fair or not, all that's important now is whether it gets overturned.
Clyde will ostensibly argue for replays, but probably don't care at all about stripping Rovers of the three points that went to Coatbridge; I just don't see a scenario wherein the SFA will, despite no one arguing for it, help us out here.0 -
I agree with your last sentence but not with replaying the games. Clyde are the guilty party why reward them with another go? Wouldn't everybody be tempted to take a chance on ignoring the rules if that's the precedent?It’s a scandal really because Clydes mistake is punishing Berwick, an innocent victim. The Albion game should be replayed with Clyde covering all costs. QP should be given the option of either banking their point or replaying the game again with Clyde covering all costs. If they don’t want a replay then a fine for Clyde would suffice. But gifting Albion 3 unworthy points is a disgrace on every level.
In any event I cannot see there is any time to squeeze in 2 extra games before the end of the season. And after it Clyde are in the playoffs. And how do we determine finishing places & thus playoff fixtures until they're done? And if Clyde could even pip Peterhead to the top by winning these 2 extra games why should Peterhead suffer? Ditto Berwick if Albion were to win. The season is supposed to end at the same time for everybody.
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Agreed. The trouble with awarding/deducting points is that other teams can be affected (eg Berwick) when all teams should be judged solely on results on the pitch. Or else the points can be meaningless (eg QP with nothing to play for). Either way it's a bad idea.Still think its terrible that both Albion and QP got the 3 points and 3-0 wins, take the points off Clyde for fucking up but don't give them to the other teams.
Best solution I think would be let the results stand (sorry Albion!) but dock the guilty team some points, if they must, from the start of next season.2 -
Have you seen our record over the past months? Can't blame a Berwick fan for being ever so slightly glum about our point scoring prospects over the next two weeks.I would settle for two points from the next two matches. Mostly because you could not get me to put money on us getting more than three against QP and Clyde, or Rovers getting more than 1 or 2 themselves. Our win against Peterhead was one of those rare planets-aligning occurrences, as evidenced by our and their form before and after that midweek match; I know Peterhead are considered bottle merchants, but I can't see them dropping points versus a Rovers side that got clobbered 4 to 0 by QP last week.I mean if your support are settling for a mere 2 points from your next two games then it says more about you then it does me.
If we win every remaining game I promise to go see an Arbroath home game in December in my underwear; stringing four wins together now is such an unrealistic scenario that thinking, let alone talking, about it is pointless.It is on your own hands. If you win every game you stay up.
You are right of course but then again at this stage in these circumstances strange things do happen. So Arbroath in December may yet beckon. Maybe we might book a coach.0 -
You are right in the sense that everything is speculation. The only certainty is that it's in Albion's hands not ours, but I would prefer our fixture list and we need 2 points more than them from 4 games. I would take us to get that.You seem very angry, VERY angry! I didn't chuck anything out without thinking, it is 3 points for a win, 2 games to play 2x3=6 so I did plenty thinking on that one!
Football is a funny game, your absolute shite beat Peterhead recently and we gave EC a real pumping so who knows? I mean if your support are settling for a mere 2 points from your next two games then it says more about you then it does me.0 -
A word from the supporter who addressed the squad in the dressing room after the gameHi All
I am the guy who went into the dressing room after the game.
I was shocked at the end result after what I thought was an very good first half and struggled to understand the change in fortunes from one half to another. One of the Annan officials said at half time that Berwick were the better side and that Annan were rattled - his words not mine.
I was not sure though what I would witness in the dressing room. As I approached the room there were certainly a lot of words being spoken.
What I saw in there was a lot of hurt, frustration and passion to find some solutions. There was no reluctant acceptance of what had happened, there was a lot of soul searching going on.
The team listened to my thoughts of what it means to be a Berwick fan and what it means to me and the others on the terracing at Annan, Berwick or wherever. My first recollection of being at home or away was chearing on Gordon Haig, must have been 1966 or 1967. No matter that's an aside.
The supporters at Annan were upset. That was magnified though many times in that dressing room.
I think what Andrew Fiddes says above [DB note; he said 'lets let’s try as hard as it is to stick together]' is correct, and is strengthened by what I saw in what was a highly charged changing room.
Let's stick together and support the team, OUR TEAM, over the next four games and see what we can get out of them.
The team know there are four games to go and it's in our hands because if we could win the four and one is against Albion Rovers then we would go above them, no matter what they do. So it is in our hands. We all need to believe. Remember the first half was great, there were some strange descions from the officials early in the second half, that changed the game. That's what happens when you are at the bottom.
However, I looked players in the eye and they looked back at me. They did not hang their heads in shame or sadness they looked straight back at me. As a supporter I could not ask for more than that. A defeated team would have avoided eye contact. This is not a defeated team, angry and frustrated yes, defeated no.
Apologies for this long note, and it just my view, but I was the only one who took up the offer from the gaffer and I'm glad I did.
Ken
I like that. Good positive stuff.
As I see it we need two points from two games and then we can end it by beating Albion on 27th. Fingers crossed.1
Berwick Rangers 2018/2019 Thread
in Scottish League 2 General Chatter
Posted
I think I might become an Annan supporter. Just for a week or so. I'll decide next Saturday night.
It's a lot closer than Elgin.