prodcast

I suppose North Tay could be considered a special case on the basis of its remoteness from the bulk of clubs in the east, in the same way as the SoS in the West region and the NCL in the north. As mentioned, NCL clubs wouldn't want to be playing through a league full of Aberdeenshire clubs, and the West juniors were never keen on playing through the SoS in order to reach the LL. Maybe the LL's reticence on the Club 42 boundary scrapping, and the EoS FA's lack of mention of north Tay are evidence of that area being a special case in the east due to remoteness. On that basis, since the NCL will have play off access at tier 6 to the HL by playing the best of the rest of the north, and the SoS will have play off access at tier 6 to the LL vs the best of the rest of the West, maybe North Tay should have play off access at tier 6 to the LL by playing against the best of the rest of the east. It would rely on the play offs correcting the imbalances of district vs region, but would enable clubs to mostly stay in an environment that would suit them, and would complete that level of the pyramid.

Oh well. From the EoS website statement on this season, it looked like there'd be scope for an additional conference before things settle down. My next-best alternative, then, would be for Tayside to be treated as a special case as per the SoS, with play off access to the LL (which, generally, you wouldn't expect them to win through too often).

That describes me quite well! But horses for co'rses, rather than pyramid symmetry. Yep. Was just trying to work out the possible outcomes for them, depending upon where they apply (if they do). If it was me, I'd like to have a decent idea what I was in for under various scenarios before acting; the pyramid over the years has been pretty confusing with the various permutations. I think applying together to be an EoS conference at tier7 this season would be a good fit for them.

It may just be me who keeps banging on about it. My reason is that the Tayside clubs are above the magic line, so in theory they would be heading north if they were to enter the pyramid this season. But... ...in the same way, is there any prospect of the Tayside area being treated as the similarly-short-numbers SoS and so feeding in at lowland tier 6? Or would they, if applying together, be treated as an additional EoS conference this season at tier7? It would be good to have the main regional pieces in place together this season.

Yeah - I'm not the brightest!

Would they both support being on a par with the Tayside clubs, all 3 areas being tier 6 feeders to the HL? It seems to me that would be the consequence of the LL rejection of scrapping the HL-LL boundary, which has effectively blocked the EoS from folding the Tayside clubs in at, perhaps, tier 7.

Hehe - I see it now. Apologies. Touche! Your wording was fine, I think. I don't like the politics of the LL holding out for something in exchange, but it may be preferable to them shunning Tayside/Angus clubs on the basis of travel costs or of increased competition - if LL clubs have genuine aspirations to play nationally, that is. I wonder if a smaller LL division for the more ambitious clubs would help bring about the necessary changes: automatic relegation from the SPFL, moving the 'boundary' north, and enabling a Midland or Tayside division to feed in below, via play offs.

Good knowledge. Sorry to be petty myself, but 3 votes each for 15 clubs would be 45 votes in total. I take it Banks o'Dee received 5/45. Going by the possible reasons you give, it seems unlikely the Tayside clubs will be welcomed in the EoS/LL.

Okay. My memory is of the second tier of the north juniors being regionalised, so Golspie for example wouldn't have had to travel all about Aberdeenshire at that level - although they ultimately may as part of the HL. I had thought the Tayside juniors would fit into that regionalised second level alongside Brechin and Montrose juniors. But l seem to be way off. From memory, Banks o'Dee had applied and been rejected in the past - possibly why they were contacted first; maybe why they said no. On that petty note, did LTL suggest earlier that the LL had rejected a change proposed by the SPFL (on where Club 42 would be relegated to) because the SPFL cancelled the pyramid play off this season? Or am I muck-raking in conspiracies?

So does that leave the question open as to why they were not invited to replace Cove, but Banks o'Dee were?

What l have in mind is the current north juniors' top tier, which has or had fewer teams/games than the HL but a similar catchment area, being a suitable intermediate step for clubs promoted from various district leagues - such as the North Caley, the current north junior second tier with its parallel sub-regions, and the Tayside juniors (all feeding in, therefore, at tier 7) - to progress through on their way to the HL. But I suspect the Tayside juniors will go south because player recruitment may be easier for them.

Yeah. Ben Avon, which is pretty much a mountain range in itself, one of Cairngorm's summits, half of Ben Macdui, and various other Munros/Munro tops I think are all in Morayshire. Something to be proud of! So much progress, really; nearly there. I'm still vexed by the likes of Golspie stepping up to a full HL season without participating in a shorter intermediary HL2 season, which may explain why they weren't invited to take Cove's place yet Banks o'Dee were, and also by where Brechin and Montrose juniors go if the Tayside/LL boundary moves north.

So nothing else can progress pyramid-wise until the 19-21 Tayside clubs come to a majority decision on whether they go Highland or Lowland?

I was referring to the Highland fault line, north of which l think it's reasonable to call 'highland'. Morayshire has some of Scotland's highest mountains, so maybe it would be better to embrace the term 'highland' than shirk it! Economically, anyhow.

Interesting info. I was wondering if using Aberdeen was a fair comparison since they don't usually occupy that final European place, or whether many of the qualifiers-via-league you mention finished fifth place in order to qualify - a fairly mediocre achievement when set against winning a cup. I'll admit that your evidence of lack of success of qualifiers-via-cup does nowt for my argument, though.

I am surprised to read here that the LL-HL boundary/catchments is/are still being discussed by the administrations as I thought that was settled years ago. For my part, the 'lowland' name has always seemed cosmetic since it doesn't approximate the Highland Boundary, which is about a line from Dumbarton to Stonehaven, and the LL includes/is fed by the Southern Uplands. All of which seemed moot, but maybe not now...?

Makes sense. At a stretch this Scottish Masters could go along similar lines to the League Cup, with a group of the 5 European qualifiers playing Saturday tea times from the last weekend in June to the end of July. The teams involved in earliest qualifiers would have to play first to see the benefit of the competition. Or some of the fixtures could be scheduled midweek for those who either had not started their European campaigns yet, or who had been knocked out early. So a group of 5 could maybe take place throughout July on that basis.

I'm quite keen on the idea of a 'cup team' who have the knack of doing well in head-to-head decisive matches. They would surely do better in European knock-out qualifiers (and so improve the coefficient) than a team finishing fifth in the league by beating struggling teams in routine fixtures? New managers often seem keen on winning a cup of any sort in order to give players a certain positive mentality.

A Midland League sitting below the Lowland League sounds okay, provided that promotion is via play off with East, West, South winners. It's maybe a bit untidy, but play offs should weed out any weaker division champions. No applications from anyone seems odd. Maybe suggests that current boundaries and prospects aren't right. But I'm sure you've been over that in the pages i haven't caught up with yet!

Wonder how they'll re-jig the league cup groups to accommodate 5 teams potentially in midweek EU action. This idea may have given games for those KO'd early, or for the wider squads, although that's not much commendation for a new competition.

Oh, right - I imagined that the north caley lge would feed in at tier 7, just below the top north region juniors, and alongside the other sub-regions such as Tayside. But it sounds like things are well in hand. I do recall the Fraserburgh chairman mentioning that promotion to the HL was on the way, when he was interviewed in the spring.

Wouldn't a team who won a domestic cup have a better chance of doing well in Europe than a team finishing fourth or fifth in the league?

Would the Tayside juniors not just fold into the current North Juniors as a district within the overall region?

Did the SPFL clubs below the Premiership consider going to 2 divisions of 16 for this season? I know Hearts would still lose out, but Kelty, Brora, Stranraer, and Partick would not be penalised for Covid that way. It would be 30 games per team, not 27, and balanced home and away fixtures.