The Wrestling Thread

[RB-Scotland]

RIP Misawa. Feel privileged to have seen him live.

Eerily enough, this happened on the same day The Wrestler was released in Japanese cinemas... and in researching for the movie, the first event director Darren Aronofsky went to(with Nicholas Cage, before he withdrew so Rourke could get the part) was an ROH card hyped around the appearance of Misawa.

[DomDom]

I had the oppertunity to see him in Carluke with Tiger Emporer ( Kotaro Suzuki ) and Ogawa on the same card and I missed it.

Gutted.

EDIT : It's been confirmed that the move actually killed Misawa, as he died from Cerival Spinal Trauma. Saito is going to be inconsolable after this. Whether people pin the blame on him or not, he'll be feeling the guilt worse than anyone can make him feel it.

EDIT 2 : It would appear that Jun Akiyama is retiring. Can't say I blame the man as he has such a similar style to Misawa.

Edited June 15, 2009 by DomDom

[KilliePie]

Am I right in saying that Raw will not have adverts tonight? Might tempt me to stay up and watch it.

Sad to hear about misawa.

[Jambo Stu]

Am I right in saying that Raw will not have adverts tonight? Might tempt me to stay up and watch it.

Sad to hear about misawa.

I doubt it

[Sir Kevin Of Kilsyth]

Been quite a few adverts already. Probably just USA Network that that deal was struck with.

[Sir Kevin Of Kilsyth]

( MONEY MONEY MONEY MONNEEYY

[DomDom]

Right, RAW commercial free is next week.

Last night's RAW was brilliant. Two amazing title matches and a not bad ECW Title match and yet another golden segment with The Miz.

[Jambo Stu]

Right, RAW commercial free is next week.

Last night's RAW was brilliant. Two amazing title matches and a not bad ECW Title match and yet another golden segment with The Miz.

For the bits I was awake for it was good. The Miz and Hornswaggle was class.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Decent RAW I thought.

Couldnt give a f**k about the whole McMahon/Trump thing

WWE Title was ok, not a fan of fatal 4 ways though but I was pleased with the outcome.

Enjoyed the ECW title match and marked a little at the winner .

Thought the WHC match was awesome and I definetly thought we were onto a Punk heel turn.

Y2J/Rey wassolid again although not as good as the last two the had.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Shuggie_Murray7

[RussellV1]

For the bits I was awake for it was good. The Miz and Hornswaggle was class.

[Jambo Stu]

Classic

[Jambo Stu]

Enjoyed the ECW title match and marked a little at the winner .

What does this mean?

[RB-Scotland]

What does this mean?

Celebrated/cheered, basically.

Anyone seen Paul E's latest column? One thing he said(bolded) stunned me, and could conceivably be seen as proof that the ECW 'resurrection' took place solely so Vince could stamp out ECW and its fanbase once and for all. Quite baffling when you consider he went out of his way to promote ECW when it was in existence, but who knows how Vince's mind works.:

If you're looking for this blog to contain one of those gushing, glowing testaments to how Tommy Dreamer winning the ECW championship is the salvation of the Extreme Vision, the resurrection of all that's right in the world, or the absolution of the Spirit of the Original ECW, then I am sorry to say that you're reading the wrong person's perspective.

When I took over creative control of what was then called Eastern Championship Wrestling in September 1993, I came into the position with the determination to break away from the stereotypical small minded booking philosophies that permeated the independent landscape.

"Take a bunch of local guys," the promoters would always theorize, "and feed them to stars coming off WWE or WCW - and back then World Class or AWA - television programs.

My goal was to make new stars. Our own stars.

Use the television-established stars to make our own ECW crew more important than the castoffs we could find on the open market.

Easy concept, right?

Just because you're on Vince McMahon's TV show doesn't mean you should mop the floor with our guys.

OUR guys are the pushed commodities. In other words, set a trend for the entire industry to follow, except for TNA, which still to this day has yet to learn the simple concept of having "branded" superstars on your own brand.

Sigh.

I rant, therefore I am. Back to Dreamer.

One of the people I had in mind for a big push was Peter 'Taz' Senerchia. The Brooklyn-born suplex machine had a travel partner that he brought to shows as his "victim," and Taz put in the good word for the kid.

"He calls himself Tommy Dreamer," Taz told me, "and this kid can take a beating like no one else."

When Tommy first came to ECW, he looked like something out of a bad WCW creative meeting's view of a hot young babyface.

Baggy genie pants, suspenders, a total "pretty boy" look. The Philly crowd hated him.

The turning point was the storyline in which Dreamer lost a Singapore Cane Match to The Sandman.

He took the 10 cracks of the kendo stick in brutal fashion - with Sandman drilling Dreamer so hard, there was blood and welts all over Dreamer's back - and yet he would keep telling Sandman and manager Nancy 'Woman' Sullivan: "Thank you Sir, may I have another?"

The willingness to stand up in the face of adversity for what he believed in became the Dreamer mantra.

I always explained to Tommy the inspiration for his character was Bruce Willis as John McClane in the John McTiernan movie Die Hard.

An ordinary man, pushed to extraordinary circumstances, who has no option left but to resort to extreme means just to survive.

The formula worked.

Dreamer became what is known as the flag waiver for ECW, defending the Extreme virtues against all comers.

In his most memorable rivalry, Dreamer spent two and a half years of his career embroiled in a war with Scott Levy's 'Raven' character.

Dreamer lost every single match to Raven for those two and a half years, until finally pinning Raven on Levy's last night in ECW at WrestlePalooza '97.

And yet, no one ever branded Tommy a loser, or "Raven's job boy." Every loss made him more popular. He was always so close, only to have victory robbed from him. He could never fulfil his Dream.

There were many times where the Raven character was left unconscious in the ring and Tommy won the fight, but he never got the win.

The tormented, ever-suffering babyface made everyone forget the pretty boy who wore baggy pants and suspenders.

In WWE, Tommy faced a different adversity.

While many members of the creative team, like Ed Koskey and David Lagana, actually grew into wrestling fanatics cheering in the bleacher section of the ECW Arena during the 1990s, Vince McMahon just didn't understand the character.

"Paul," the Chairman of the entire industry would say, "what exactly IS a Tommy Dreamer? I don't get it!"

This was never more apparent than a few weeks into the re-birth of ECW as a television property in 2006, when Vince had an epiphany.

Kill off the originals. All of 'em. Well, we'll keep Sabu and Rob Van Dam, but the first week after Big Show won the ECW title, Vince wanted the newly-minted "Heel Heyman" to come out on television and publicly fire Sandman, Balls Mahoney, Little Guido, Francine, Al Snow and especially Tommy Dreamer.

Vince declared: "Time to let people know that concept is dead, and so are those guys, one and all."

With help from Talent Exec John Laurinaitis, and even a surprisingly impassioned endorsement from Stephanie McMahon-LeVesque, I was able to persuade Vince to keep the originals on board, and not because the brand needed the Bingo Hall alumnae, but because there was actual value in those talented performers.

While the firings, which were going to include the real life behind the scenes "best wishes in all you future endeavours" notice given to Dreamer and company were averted, Vince's lack of belief in Dreamer continued.

You could see it on television for the past three years. Tommy Dreamer was a enhancement talent. Nothing more, nothing less.

Earlier this year, something changed. Dreamer vowed to win the ECW championship or leave the WWE.

While many make such grandiose statements, it was unusual for someone who got beat and/or beat up every week on television to make the claim.

Even when Dreamer was getting squashed, the statement was picking up momentum. Finally, not only did WWE creative have to take notice, but Vince did as well.

Lo and behold, Tommy Dreamer was on Vince's radar. And not just because "Dreamer can make Mark Henry or Khali or The Hart Dynasty look good. Book the match!"

But because Tommy Dreamer worked his way into a position that offered something far more valuable than a transient title that has clearly lost its value. Tommy Dreamer won the "spotlight."

Being the "focus" of the show, especially on the ECW program, is far more valuable than the championship.

WrestleMania had excellent title matches this year, but nothing had the focus and spotlight rightfully offered to The Undertaker v Shawn Michaels.

Last year's WrestleMania is not remembered for any championship match, but for what was to be the final match in the illustrious career of Nature Boy Ric Flair.

In World Wrestling Entertainment, "focus" and "spotlight" means "money."

So, if you're looking for me to declare a holiday because Tommy Dreamer is the ECW Champion, you're not following my diatribe.

I'm very proud of the not-quite-so-pretty-anymore kid from Yonkers, New York.

He won the most coveted, most valuable, most sought-after prize in WWE. He has VINCE'S ATTENTION.

Attaboy, Tommy. John McClane couldn't have done it better himself!

Read more from Paul Heyman at www.heymanhustle.com.

Of course, the firings happened anyway... but the idea of them being carried out like that is pretty outrageous. I'd like to have seen it done at the Hammerstein.

Edited June 16, 2009 by RB-Scotland

[Sir Kevin Of Kilsyth]

There would have been actual riots. Repeats of that chair throwing incident with Cactus Jack.

As we speak I am currently watching History of the Intercontinental Championship. Brilliant DVD - some cracking bouts on all 3 discs. I put it on at about 1am. Its now quarter to 6 and im neither bored nor tired. Aiming to finish it in one sitting which will be my accomplishment for the day lol.

Edited June 17, 2009 by Sir Kevin Of Kilsyth

[Shuggie_Murray7]

There would have been actual riots. Repeats of that chair throwing incident with Cactus Jack.

As we speak I am currently watching History of the Intercontinental Championship. Brilliant DVD - some cracking bouts on all 3 discs. I put it on at about 1am. Its now quarter to 6 and im neither bored nor tired. Aiming to finish it in one sitting which will be my accomplishment for the day lol.

It's something I really want to see. The best WWE DVD I've seen yet is their Ladder match DVD which is well worth a watch for anyone yet to see it. Anyone planning on getting the Randy Savage DVD? I'm definetly getting this as aparently it has loads of awesome matches on it.

[banana]

Just wondering, what's the average age and IQ of regular contributors to this thread?

[Toma_BullyWee]

Just wondering, what's the average age and IQ of regular contributors to this thread?

8 and 1, obviously.

[DomDom]

Just wondering, what's the average age and IQ of regular contributors to this thread?

Anyways.

Kane vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Bad Blood 2004

It was once said that Benoit could have a good match with a stack of shite. Kane at this point was unmotivated as hell and sick of it, so having a great match with him would have been the equivalent. This is the old speed vs. power match. It's weird seeing Benoit using speed as an advantage. It comes across pretty well though, as Kane finally looked to be back in a sort of "yeah, I love this" kind of mood. ***3/4

The Dream Team vs. The British Bulldogs. 2/3 Falls Match - WWE SNME 1986

Incredibly disappointing stuff from these two teams here. I think the 2/3 Falls Rules didn't help as both of the teams didn't seem to be able to adapt to the rules very well. Poor showing from both teams. *1/2

The Dudley Boys vs. The Hardy Boys, Tables Match - WWE Royal Rumble 2000

The Dudley Boys got over because of table use so it makes sense that this was their signature match. Noteable PPV for being the first shown live by Channel 4. A quite simply mental match from these four guys, as the Dudleys after years of wrestling mediocre spot monkeys came up against two guys willing to murder themselves, and who also knew HOW to do it. What resulted was some mental spots from both teams. Jeff's Suicide Dive into a table was the highlight. ****

Rob Van Dam vs. Jeff Hardy - WWE InVasion 2001

All RVD had to do was show up in WWE, and he became popular as hell no matter what he did. This was his first big match in WWE. Will be interesting to see how much stalling he does here. And there isn't much. There's little bits of pointing here and there, but it was generally short lived as Jeff would take advantage. See what a bit of storytelling and sense does there Rob ? Anyways, an impressive match and a complete change from the usual hardcore title style. ***1/2

Steve Austin and Triple H vs. Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit - WWE RAW 21/05/2001

This was the match which seen the first of a couple of major injuries to the quad of HHH. This match used every trick in the awesome tag team book, as the heels just did everything behind the ref's back and had the referee tied up constantly, with Austin's shenanigans being a real highlights. The close comebacks of Benoit were right up there with the classic Ricky Morton style. The match ended up as hot as hell and was just absolutely fantastic. ****1/2

Chris Benoit vs. The Rock - WWE Smackdown 15/08/2002

This is a physical hard hitting match from these guys, as these two guys just knew how to click and their matches always had a lightning pace. Benoit even busted out stuff that he hadn't done since he had surgery on his neck, which added to the drama of the match as the crowd was buying into every second of what was going on. ***

Scott Steiner vs. Goldberg, No DQ Match - WCW Fall Brawl 2000

Don't be alarmed by the two names, the letters WCW and the year 2000. This is apparently a good brawl. It's amazing that even after the bookers murdered the credibility of Goldberg in WCW, he was still more over than most of the wrestlers in North America at the time. This was actually a great brawl as it was two big b*****ds tossing each other around for the first half non-stop, and then the second half has some juicy fun overbooking. Worth a watch. ***1/4

[banterman86]

Just wondering, what's the average age and IQ of regular contributors to this thread?

Bit harsh that, am a lurker rather than a poster on this thread but like visiting it for a good wrassling update!!

Personally i enjoy viewing wrestling as modern theatre,literally the shakespeare of its time ( and if u laugh at that you have no knowledge regarding shakespeare's place in renaisance entertainment!)

With my attempt to postion myself as an intelectual out the way (but my shakespeare wwe comparison works!) i must admit to finding the wrestling rather dull recently, only match that had me engaged this year was HBK undertaker, and to be honest thats because i had £45 riding on it!*

An example on wwe's switch to PG-13, in terms of both violence and attention spans, turning off older viewers?

Oh and Shuggiemurray my dvd pick of the year> surely the rise nd fall of wcw!!!

* who would think i would have found no less than FOUR saps willing to bet against the undertaker at wrestlemania??!!???

** i'm still waiting on £35 of that £45 ....

[DA Baracus]

Scott Steiner vs. Goldberg, No DQ Match - WCW Fall Brawl 2000

Don't be alarmed by the two names, the letters WCW and the year 2000. This is apparently a good brawl. It's amazing that even after the bookers murdered the credibility of Goldberg in WCW, he was still more over than most of the wrestlers in North America at the time. This was actually a great brawl as it was two big b*****ds tossing each other around for the first half non-stop, and then the second half has some juicy fun overbooking. Worth a watch. ***1/4

Erm.........