The Hero of the Day Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 McMahon returned as a face in the fall of 1999 and won the WWF Championship in a match against Triple H, thanks to outside interference from Austin on the September 16 episode of SmackDown!. However He decided had to vacated the title during the following Monday's Raw is War because he is not allowed on WWF TV because of the stipulations of the Fully loaded 1999 contract he signed. However Steve Austin reinstated him in return for a WWF title shot. Over the next few months McMahon and Triple H feuded, with the linchpin of the feud being Triple H's storyline marriage to Stephanie McMahon. The feud culminated at Armageddon in 1999; McMahon faced Triple H in a No Holds Barred match which McMahon lost. Afterward, Stephanie turned on him. At WrestleMania 2000, Triple H defended the WWF Championship in a Fatal Four-Way Elimination match in which each competitor had a McMahon in his corner. Triple H had his wife Stephanie McMahon who was also the WWF Women's Champion in his corner, The Rock had Vince McMahon in his corner, Mick Foley had Linda McMahon in his corner, and Big Show had Shane in his corner. After Big Show and Foley were eliminated, Triple H and The Rock were left. Although Vince was in The Rock's corner, he turned on The Rock after hitting him with a chair turning heel for the first time since his feud with Steve Austin, which helped Triple H win the match and retain his title. This would officially begin the McMahon-Helmsley Era. LIke I said, Vince was a face going into 2000 as Armageddon was and has always been the December PPV. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellV1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Name a bigger face than Rock 99-02? or a bigger heel than Rock in either 98 or 03? The Rock was always number 2 to Steve Austin during the attitude era & his main event heel runs probably total up to about 8 months, nowhere near long enough for him to be the "best heel of the last 20 years" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The impact that is on in America in about 24hours has a "surprise ending". I've not read any spoilers but realistically the biggest one they could pull off is Sting. Really to top the Rock coming back it'd need to be something like Heyman and Lesnar turning up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KilliePie Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 <br />The impact that is on in America in about 24hours has a "surprise ending". I've not read any spoilers but realistically the biggest one they could pull off is Sting.<br /><br />Really to top the Rock coming back it'd need to be something like Heyman and Lesnar turning up.<br /> There is no spoilers for it, its a live Impact from North Carolina. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forehead7 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I just meant spoilers that one might read on a PWinsider or whatever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It IS the real Diesel in Kilmarnock. He's coming over for 1PW in Liverpool with Hall, Waltman and the Outlaws, so BCW decided to bring Diesel up here while the going was good. No other details other than May 25th in Kilmarnock's Grand Hall. What bollocks. You mean to say that 2 all time greats in a stare down was turn off material? I noticed no one took the bait the first time. It isn't bait. I thought it was a waste of two massive returns to have them just stand there and pose. If we don't get some sort of explanation as to why they have decided that Nexus and Sheamus wiping them off the WWE universe doesn't matter anymore, it'll only serve to make matters even worse. Name a bigger face than Rock 99-02? or a bigger heel than Rock in either 98 or 03? Vince McMahon was a much, much, much bigger heel than The Rock in 1998. 2003 was probably the only time when a Rock heel turn properly worked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M0rtonfc Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Just a few things from me..... I have to agree with Dom regarding the whole Undertaker / HHH return!, what a waste of 2 returns that was, after the promo's built up Takers return so well!. Don't get me wrong, when HHH's music kicked in I had a shiver down my spine and shouted a big 'OH YEEEES!' out loud but to have him just march straight down to the ring while removing his jacket and then just have a stare down with Taker beggars belief!, what made it worse was the way they cut to the adverts, what the f**k?!!. Why on earth would you not just bring HHH back at a PPV event, it would have been so much better and a great pop!. Overall a bit let down with the way they done it but very happy that it will be Taker v HHH, I don't want any sort of quest ref either but we all know it's goin to happen and who it will be!. I feel really sorry for Sheamus in this, he's the one who put HHH out and must have been expected a good wee running battle for a while but instead is not even mentioned and then goes out and gets pumped aff Henry, what a kick in the balls that is!. On the subject of King and Cole, I've already expressed my opinion about King, he should never have got the chance to go back in the ring and fight in a main event, he's actually still OK in the ring but there should be no way that a 60 year old commentator should be in the ring putting up the fight he was, it makes me a bit angry he's getting a push when you have other wrestlers out there like Sheamus, Morrison etc who don't get me wrong have had pushes but they must be thinking what the hell is going on!. As for Cole, the man has been nothing short of world class in my opinion, his banter is great and I'm loving the whole gimpish heel he plays, he generates heat that King never got when JR was about, he has the crowd eating out of hands and he's only a Commentator, the move to make him love the Miz had worked out brilliantly!. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The problem with Sheamus is that they just wound up having him getting jobbed to JoMo every week. Jobbing him to Triple H wasn't going to help anyone, but at the same time, it's much better than what the alternative is likely to be. Instead, Triple H has decided that being wiped out for 9 months is no big deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) The Rock was always number 2 to Steve Austin during the attitude era & his main event heel runs probably total up to about 8 months, nowhere near long enough for him to be the "best heel of the last 20 years" What pish! The Rock became WWF Champion at Survivor Series 98 turning heel in the process until mid 1999. Which is 8 months in itself. January 2003 until Backlash was is second heel run. The Rock was never number 2 to anyone. Rock was a heel 98-99 so you can't compare that. And then Austin wasn't even around for the WWE's height of their success, early 00. Who says you have to be around forever to be a great heel, I'd stick Muhammed Hassan right behind the Rock as the best heel of the last 20 years, how long was he around for? Edited February 24, 2011 by The Hero of the Day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 What pish! The Rock became WWF Champion at Survivor Series 98 turning heel in the process until mid 1999. Which is 8 months in itself. He was definately a babyface when he faced Triple H at Over the Edge in 1999. Probably about 7 months he was a heel for. Probably peaked from January-March in that time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 It isn't bait. I thought it was a waste of two massive returns to have them just stand there and pose. If we don't get some sort of explanation as to why they have decided that Nexus and Sheamus wiping them off the WWE universe doesn't matter anymore, it'll only serve to make matters even worse. Vince McMahon was a much, much, much bigger heel than The Rock in 1998. 2003 was probably the only time when a Rock heel turn properly worked. Vince was an on screen character who had a couple of match in the Attitude Era, not a constant performer like The Rock or Hollywood Hogan was at the time. Ok why did the Rock's heel turn in 98 not work? It could have been done better I agree but I don't believe for what second you considered turning off your tv while that segment was on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 What pish! The Rock became WWF Champion at Survivor Series 98 turning heel in the process until mid 1999. Which is 8 months in itself. January 2003 until Backlash was is second heel run. He was definately a babyface when he faced Triple H at Over the Edge in 1999. Probably about 7 months he was a heel for. Probably peaked from January-March in that time. Aye it was the May PPV that year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 As for Cole, the man has been nothing short of world class in my opinion, his banter is great and I'm loving the whole gimpish heel he plays, he generates heat that King never got when JR was about, he has the crowd eating out of hands and he's only a Commentator, the move to make him love the Miz had worked out brilliantly!. King never had that freedom that Michael Cole has just now with the exception of the ECW stuff back in the 90s. King was and always will be a better heel commentator then Michael Cole. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Ok why did the Rock's heel turn in 98 not work? I think I worded that wrong. The 2003 heel turn was the only time when he was the #1 heel in the company. Vince was an on screen character who had a couple of match in the Attitude Era, not a constant performer like The Rock or Hollywood Hogan was at the time. He was still the #1 heel in the company though. Non-wrestler or not. It could have been done better I agree but I don't believe for what second you considered turning off your tv while that segment was on. I turned off right after. Not during. I simply couldn't be arsed watching anything else after that. Who says you have to be around forever to be a great heel Well yeah. Hogan was heel for a matter of seconds before being solidified as a top heel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 King never had that freedom that Michael Cole has just now with the exception of the ECW stuff back in the 90s. King was and always will be a better heel commentator then Michael Cole. The King from the mid 90s to the early 00s was better than Cole is now. Bobby Heenan was better than both of them. And The King WAS equally over in 2000 with the help of JR and Tazz. So that point is shite anyways. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The King from the mid 90s to the early 00s was better than Cole is now. Bobby Heenan was better than both of them. And The King WAS equally over in 2000 with the help of JR and Tazz. So that point is shite anyways. That's what I took exception to as it is completely false. Mortonfc claimed that Cole "generates heat that King never got when JR was around". Heenan was better than them both, I agree but he was never relevant in this discussion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I know Heenan wasn't in the discussion, but I thought I'd put that out there anyways since we were on the subject of heel commentators. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hero of the Day Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) I think I worded that wrong. The 2003 heel turn was the only time when he was the #1 heel in the company. He was still the #1 heel in the company though. Non-wrestler or not. I turned off right after. Not during. I simply couldn't be arsed watching anything else after that. Well yeah. Hogan was heel for a matter of seconds before being solidified as a top heel. You could argue that but MacMahon was part of the Corporation as was the Rock both equally heelish as the other. Who screwed Austin, the top face at that time, at the Royal Rumble, and beat the sh*t out of Mick Foley in the same night, that's your top heel right there. The WWF champion who is heel is definately your top heel in the company. So it wasn't the worse segment on Raw like you said, I think you've over exaggerated? Edited February 24, 2011 by The Hero of the Day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DomDom Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I exaggerated aye, probably because I was still pretty annoyed. You could argue that but MacMahon was part of the Corporation as was the Rock both equally heelish as the other. Who screwed Austin the top face at that time at the Royal Rumble, and beat the sh*t out of Mick Foley in the same night, that's your top heel right there. The WWF champion who is heel is definately your top heel in the company. I don't think being a champion necessarily makes you a top guy. It makes you the guy that WWE WANTS to be the top guy. The Rock was obviously a focal point seeing as he was the champion, and as I said, from January - March he was really on the top of his game as a heel, but Vince always seemed to outshine him in those times thanks to the fued with Austin coming to an end and that stealing the spotlight a lot of the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellV1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 What pish! The Rock became WWF Champion at Survivor Series 98 turning heel in the process until mid 1999. Which is 8 months in itself. Rock turned face the night after Backlash, November - April = 6 months, then he returned at the end of January '03 til Backlash = 3 Months so I was out by 1 month I'm not saying The Rock wasn't great at what he did but IN MY OPINION over the past 20 years Austin, Hogan & Bret Hart were better faces than him & McMahon, Hogan, Triple H, JBL & CM Punk were better heels than he was 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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