Charles Green's share issue

[youngsy]

So what your saying is that in order to have a competitive Scottish top flight competitive league you need both (or neither) OF teams in it?

That's exactly what i'm saying. However without both Glasgow clubs in this league the interest outside of Scotland would be somewhat diminished.

[bennett]

Were the fcuk do you get your drugs Benny ? they are well better than mine and would like to get some

Hearts have the boast of last splitting the OF ! and to their fans it was the best ever result in living memory.And that was when Rangers EBT driven team was funded at it's most in that season.So if by your philosophy Rangers won't win the SPL this year so why bother supporting a diddy club in the 3rd ? I mean your not competing for the main title which is what your club has always done so what's the point of winning a piece of junk as it will be to your fans when they get to the top teir ?.

Teams or competitors engage in competition for many reasons ! to beat their best time,points accumulated,goals scored,highest finish in a league ever,travel the world in competitions and many more so don't post shite "why bother if you don't win it" if that were the case then you'd have no league to play in because there are only two teams and where's the competitiveness in that ? and your club would die.

It's the competition that makes the sport not the eventual winners.

So easy to say when your team is skooshing the title and is going to be unchallenged for the foreseeable future.

The SPL is not competitive, your point about Hearts proves it. The Jambos as the 2nd biggest SPL team should be challenging for the title yet they are nowhere near the league leaders.

Cheers HB

[Shades75]

Sadly for you and others,that is not the issue here. The issue is that without Rangers to challenge Celtic or vice versa there is no credibility to the SPL in any way. As a league competition,a viable league at that,without both Rangers and Celtic challenging for the league title the SPL is what many outside Scotland have the opinion of,(and inside the country if their honest) is that of a league with no relevance. Don't kid yourself,the SPL as a competition misses Rangers,there is no argument there,despite your wishful thinking.

It's a little bit strange to use the term, "no credibility" you know, if you give it so much as a passing thought.

You don't think that the two horse race that Rangers and Celtic engaged in year in year out has lost even a smidgen of it's credibility due to the disclosures of the last year or so?

Who is this league supposed to be relevant to? If you mean those with a chance of winning it, then again we, the diddies, will pass. The title race has always been irrelevant. Those outside Scotland? Absolutely irrelevant as always.

It seems contradictory to hold up the values of competition when that is exactly what Rangers perverted.

[hellbhoy]

Sadly for you and others,that is not the issue here. The issue is that without Rangers to challenge Celtic or vice versa there is no credibility to the SPL in any way. As a league competition,a viable league at that,without both Rangers and Celtic challenging for the league title the SPL is what many outside Scotland have the opinion of,(and inside the country if their honest) is that of a league with no relevance. Don't kid yourself,the SPL as a competition misses Rangers,there is no argument there,despite your wishful thinking.

I like the way the OF supporters just dismiss the other 40 teams that give them life ! if there were not 40 diddy teams in the leagues then you wouldn't be typing what you did as they are like it or not your competition.They may not be able to match the OF's income or budgets but it is the diddy teams who make the OF what they are unfortunately.

And if the league is of no relevance as you put it so why do you bother following a club in a non relevant league ?

And because you do not support another club you can't see the other fans jumping over each other at the thought of finishing in the league higher than they have done for years.Extra money from a higher position to be able to strengthen the squad means they might be in better shape before the Clone Rangers get there making it a fight for your club to even get near second spot for a few years.And after a couple of years in the SPL and are not competing for the title with no countless millions getting spunked into Rangers to make that happen ! I don't think your fans will go to watch their team getting raped by a ! Dundee FC outfit and are fighting to make the split.

[Portofino]

As a league competition,a viable league at that,without both Rangers and Celtic challenging for the league title the SPL is what many outside Scotland have the opinion of,(and inside the country if their honest) is that of a league with no relevance.

This keeps cropping up, and I'm assuming must be a generational thing applicable to those who have only ever known the top league title to be contested by two teams. It isn't Rangers and Celtic challenging for the league title year after year that gives the league it's relevance. Given the state of our game up here, I'd argue it is quite the reverse.

[hellbhoy]

So easy to say when your team is skooshing the title and is going to be unchallenged for the foreseeable future.

The SPL is not competitive, your point about Hearts proves it. The Jambos as the 2nd biggest SPL team should be challenging for the title yet they are nowhere near the league leaders.

Cheers HB

It is competitive you twat ! a bit one sided at the moment but Celtic getting beat says there is the potential if a club has a brilliant manager and scouting facilities and gets outstanding bargain basement talent there could be one year a team that will give the OF a run for their money and possibly even win the SPL title with both the OF in it.

FCUK Benny you have been used to winning things so long you can't even respect the clubs that make your club what it is.Queens Park amatuer outfit ! takes the club with the seconds highest wage budget in Scotland into extra injury time before Rangers could win it ! is that not a competitive fixture ? or will it be classed as a bad day for ra Gers ? and three points in the bag as expected so the game disnae matter even if it took your team some doing to win it.

[bennett]

It is competitive you twat ! a bit one sided at the moment but Celtic getting beat says there is the potential if a club has a brilliant manager and scouting facilities and gets outstanding bargain basement talent there could be one year a team that will give the OF a run for their money and possibly even win the SPL title with both the OF in it.

FCUK Benny you have been used to winning things so long you can't even respect the clubs that make your club what it is.Queens Park amatuer outfit ! takes the club with the seconds highest wage budget in Scotland into extra injury time before Rangers could win it ! is that not a competitive fixture ? or will it be classed as a bad day for ra Gers ? and three points in the bag as expected so the game disnae matter even if it took your team some doing to win it.

It's competitive but in a one sided way

Aye ok son, you've gave me a good laugh tonight if nothing else.

[hellbhoy]

Oh dear HB speaking shite and handing out insults and breaking down....again.

is that a straw your clutching onto Tedi ? and posting shite is the amigos job entirely.

[hellbhoy]

It's competitive but in a one sided way

Aye ok son, you've gave me a good laugh tonight if nothing else.

You have no idea what competition is.It takes 12 teams to compete in the SPL and all competing to finish as high up the league as possible at the end of the season and not just about winning it as some OF fans would lead you to believe.You ask a Ross County fan about their very first season in the SPL and it's all about surviving the relegation spot at the beginning and finishing higher in the SPL next year if they stay up.And Ross county will have their competition from other clubs fighting to evade relegation,it's probably more competitive down at the bottom than it is at the top.

[hellbhoy]

I have no doubt you will proud when you team wins the SPL this year, even though you won it without actually competing against anybody.

so there won't be eleven other teams to play against ? or even another eleven players to play against ?

So Tedi what would happen if Celtic took on bad form completely and ICT clawed back the deficit and won the SPL title ? probably not happen but there is the element of it could happen.

I'm sure you will be totally proud to hold aloft the coveted 3rd division trophy because your team won it against the lowest opposition in the senior leagues and no offence to the teams in it winning it by a country mile knowing at the start of the season.Your club just about bought it at the cost of millions when other clubs have won it on ? feck all spent basically.

Your club has ruined the 3rd division competitively by fielding what could be considered an SPL team although you wouldn't believe that most times

So what about the current ongoing SPL competition to finish second in the league ? one team is guaranteed to win it seeing as one club keeled over and died that used to be guaranteed at least second spot every year.Tell me that's not a competition to all the other clubs !.

And lastly your club won't be any competition to Celtic when they reach the SPL you'll be fighting off Hearts,Hibs,Dundee Utd as well as the others because they play at a far higher level of competition than yours will have been used too

[youngsy]

How do you propose the SPL regains credibility youngsy?

What was creditable about a league that every year was a two horse race, and one of those horses was doped?

Do you think all credibility has been lost as one of those horses went into liquidation?

How do you propose the top league regains credibility? Should rangers return, they surely cannot compete with a club running a profit, when previously the only way the club could compete meant the company running it accrued unmanageable debt resulting in its death. And that was with tax "assistance"

How can you possibly compete this time, doing it above board?

Would any credibility be lost should rangers be stripped of titles?

A lot of questions there,some repeated, but as far as i'm concerned without Rangers in that division there will not be a viable competiveness for the accolade of champions. At least having a two team challenge for the league was far more acceptable than one team running away with because there is no challenge whatsoever.

As a club we've competed very well throughout our history (we now await the tedious new club nonsense), so i would think that we will be the only relevant challlenge to Celtic when we do return to the top division (we now await the tedious shouts of "you've never played in the top division).

As for "doing it above board",enlighten us and tell us,at this moment in time has the club been found guilty of anything? As i've said before outwith Celtic,Rangers will win the top title before any other club in that division when we do get back,have no doubt of that. Simply because there is no relevant challenge to Celtic at the moment and there won't be until we are back in that division.

[youngsy]

You have no idea what competition is.It takes 12 teams to compete in the SPL and all competing to finish as high up the league as possible at the end of the season and not just about winning it as some OF fans would lead you to believe.You ask a Ross County fan about their very first season in the SPL and it's all about surviving the relegation spot at the beginning and finishing higher in the SPL next year if they stay up.And Ross county will have their competition from other clubs fighting to evade relegation,it's probably more competitive down at the bottom than it is at the top.

There may well be 12 teams in that division but as a competition there is nothing there to challenge for the main object of having a league,any league,and that's having the capability to challenge for the trophy and indeed win it. Which as a competition makes non-competitive for the title.

We all know there will be the relegation battles,that happens in every league in football but in those leagues there is a relevant challenge for the title,that's the point. Without both Rangers and Celtic competing against each other there is not a competitiveness to win the championship. To be honest Scottish football either needs both clubs in the same division or both of them out of Scottish football in order for a competition worth bothering about.

[killingfloorman]

As for "doing it above board",enlighten us and tell us,at this moment in time has the club been found guilty of anything?

This old chesnut again? It's been a while youngst, thanks for rescuing

it from oblivion. Of course, it was all a bad dream, rapeepul dun

nuffing wrong, it's a cimmy tomspiracy etc.etc

[dave.j]

A lot of questions there,some repeated, but as far as i'm concerned without Rangers in that division there will not be a viable competiveness for the accolade of champions. At least having a two team challenge for the league was far more acceptable than one team running away with because there is no challenge whatsoever.

As a club we've competed very well throughout our history (we now await the tedious new club nonsense), so i would think that we will be the only relevant challlenge to Celtic when we do return to the top division (we now await the tedious shouts of "you've never played in the top division).

As for "doing it above board",enlighten us and tell us,at this moment in time has the club been found guilty of anything? As i've said before outwith Celtic,Rangers will win the top title before any other club in that division when we do get back,have no doubt of that. Simply because there is no relevant challenge to Celtic at the moment and there won't be until we are back in that division.

Interesting, but not unpredictable.

i'll repeat again, the only way Rangers were able to compete with celtic was using EBT's, regardless of their legality, that allowed them to increase their playing budget, therefore allowed them to stay close to celtic.

Whilst doing this, they were also running up a huge debt, a debt that saw the "company" liquidated. debt to small businesss that if rangers had paid, would have reduced the playing budget.

and all this time, celtic were breaking even, sometimes running a profit!

over the last 15 to 20 years if Rangers had run at break even, paid off the debts when the bill came in and didn't use a tax dodge.... could they have even come close to celtic... adversly if celtic had ran at a giant loss at the same level as rangers, how many more players could celtic have brought in, that would have allowed them to run away from rangers.

i'm not saying that if rangers return, that they will be a mid table team, the income they generate from attendances should see them as the second place team. but they will be the second place team, and thats as good as it can get... i repeat, the only way you competed in a top two, previously, was running up debt and using a tax dodge.

how can any sensible rangers fan (of which you are one) realistically look at what has happenned, the tricks used to compete with celtic, and say with a straight face, that without doing all these under hand things.... you will still compete with celtic!!!

it's not financially possible.... otherwise you would have done it before!

[youngsy]

This old chesnut again? It's been a while youngst, thanks for rescuing

it from oblivion. Of course, it was all a bad dream, rapeepul dun

nuffing wrong, it's a cimmy tomspiracy etc.etc

One thing you won't hear from myself is stating that it's a "timmy conspiracy or anything else on that type of theme. However as it stands at the moment the club has not been found guilty of cheating. If they have please point out when this was.

[killingfloorman]

One thing you won't hear from myself is stating that it's a "timmy conspiracy or anything else on that type of theme. However as it stands at the moment the club has not been found guilty of cheating. If they have please point out when this was.

Weren't you found guilty of not paying NI, PAYE on salaries?

[~~~]

Weren't you found guilty of not paying NI, PAYE on salaries?

that was the company, not the club. big difference you know

[youngsy]

Interesting, but not unpredictable.

i'll repeat again, the only way Rangers were able to compete with celtic was using EBT's, regardless of their legality, that allowed them to increase their playing budget, therefore allowed them to stay close to celtic.

Whilst doing this, they were also running up a huge debt, a debt that saw the "company" liquidated. debt to small businesss that if rangers had paid, would have reduced the playing budget.

and all this time, celtic were breaking even, sometimes running a profit!

over the last 15 to 20 years if Rangers had run at break even, paid off the debts when the bill came in and didn't use a tax dodge.... could they have even come close to celtic... adversly if celtic had ran at a giant loss at the same level as rangers, how many more players could celtic have brought in, that would have allowed them to run away from rangers.

i'm not saying that if rangers return, that they will be a mid table team, the income they generate from attendances should see them as the second place team. but they will be the second place team, and thats as good as it can get... i repeat, the only way you competed in a top two, previously, was running up debt and using a tax dodge.

how can any sensible rangers fan (of which you are one) realistically look at what has happenned, the tricks used to compete with celtic, and say with a straight face, that without doing all these under hand things.... you will still compete with celtic!!!

it's not financially possible.... otherwise you would have done it before!

Are we only concentrating on the timeframe of the EBTs as regards Rangers competing for the top title in Scotland? You see the thing is both clubs have by and large been competing against each other for the top title in Scotland for many years before the last decade, albeit we had some clubs, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd, Kilmarnock and Dundee actually winning the championship outwith Rangers and Celtic since 1962.

That's fifty years since Dundee won it,couldn't retain it, Kilmarnock the same three years later, Aberdeen won it in 1980 couldn't retain it, Dundee United same applies they couldn't retain it,Aberdeen won it and retained it in 1984 and 1985 but that's it. So in that respect that has been the reality of the Scottish game going back decades and i'll say again that Rangers will win the championship before any other Scottish club, outwith Celtic. Hence the reason i'm saying that without both clubs in the same division there is no relevant challenge to either club,at the current time that club being Celtic.

[killingfloorman]

that was the company, not the club. big difference you know

I was trying to steer clear of that whole thing Also why i never mentioned the whole EBT thing (were found guitly in parts, maybe, and subject to appeal etc.)

I would just like to see one Rangers fan admit to one thing, just once

[youngsy]

Weren't you found guilty of not paying NI, PAYE on salaries?

No, Whyte withheld the PAYE and N.I. which was the main reason for the PLC liquidation but there was never a finding of guilty on this in a court of law,such as a tribunal.HMRC forwarded a demand for payment and there is no argument that the money was held back but there was never a finding of guilt.