Orange Walk / Scottish Cricket thread

[forever_blue]

Bigot found.

Good well balanced and thought out response

[Musketeer Gripweed]

What the f**k are they walking for tomorrow? Bunch of fannies.

[mrcat1990]

Sectarianism is a an overhyped , overmythed tool used by the media in this country , yes it exists and yes it is an issue but it is nowhere near the levels some believe it to be. People in glasgow and surrounding area go about their daily lives working or living next to each other . The problem comes when drink is added to the scenario like ofnthe day of an old firm game for example , when some go out their way to get blootered and try an find themselves a fight , however the reality being most of these people are probably the same people who are out causing hassle at weekends regardless of wether Rangers or celtic are playing each other it just happens to be that an old firm game gives them an easy excuse to start a fight, and there lies the real issues Of Scotland. Poverty so to speak , abuse of alcohol and the culture amongst young men particularly in west Scotland that to be a man and have a good night involves getting blootered beyond all recognition and getting into a square go with somebody , the issues I have just brought up are far bigger issues in this country than sectarianism will ever be

From my own personal experiences things are fine outside the Old Firm/OO bubble. On a day to day basis such issues haven't been present in my life, however match days for either team bring the backwards ideologies into the public for both teams. Old Firm games being when it really meets a point. The big July Orange Walk probably trumps it though for ugly scenes, although I've walked into the eye of that shit. Never actually been near an Old Firm game and just seen the shite in the pubs or the post game aftermath.

I fully believe if you took alot of these idiots into a time machine to full swing Troubles era Belfast, then their need to sing bigoted songs about an ugly conflict would probably die down a little.

[THE KING]

So the AoH don't parade, then?

Yes they do, they sound like a bunch of fukwits tbf, but as far as I understand ,unlike the OO they don't preach religious supremacy or denounce other religions.

[~~~]

Never actually been near an Old Firm game

The games are fine, very well policed. Never had any trouble going to, inside and leaving the stadiums

[Jacksgranda]

Yes they do, they sound like a bunch of fukwits tbf, but as far as I understand ,unlike the OO they don't preach religious supremacy or denounce other religions.

That doesn't mean that they are not sectarian, which is the whole crux of your argument against protestant fraternal groups. Of course you've now moved the goal posts to "sectarian (bigoted)".

All (christian) denominations claim to be the one true way, so that invalidates the last part of your post.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Yes they do, they sound like a bunch of fukwits tbf, but as far as I understand ,unlike the OO they don't preach religious supremacy or denounce other religions.

Considering the religion you follow to be superior is practically tautological. If one believed another one to be superior then one would follow that one instead. Similarly professing a religion, particularly the Abrahamic revealed variety, unavoidably denounces religions that contradict it.

The Catholic Church's obstinate dogmatic claim to be "The one true Church" is particularly confrontational in this regard but it's hardly unique.

[THE KING]

That doesn't mean that they are not sectarian, which is the whole crux of your argument against protestant fraternal groups. Of course you've now moved the goal posts to "sectarian (bigoted)". .

Really?

Are there per chance fukwit bigots trying to justify fukwit bigots marching about streets waving banners about killing people of a certain religion on this thread?

Pick anyone you want , they all celibrate a sectarian war over 300 years ago that resulted in Non Protestants being treated no better than animals with no rights or lands for generations.I'm well aware the bigot appologists will try to present it as something else but I like most on here cant wait till ALL these bigotfests are banned.

[THE KING]

Considering the religion you follow to be superior is practically tautological. If one believed another one to be superior then one would follow that one instead. Similarly professing a religion, particularly the Abrahamic revealed variety, unavoidably denounces religions that contradict it.

The Catholic Church's obstinate dogmatic claim to be "The one true Church" is particularly confrontational in this regard but it's hardly unique.

Thats just wrong , The Catholic church does not teach religous supremacy or condem other denominations.

In fact the complete opposite is true they by holy decree actively peach unity and respect between religion...

NOSTRA AETATE

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)

The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.

3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5

.....

Edited May 29, 2015 by THE KING

[topcat(The most tip top)]

It's difficult to see what posting a link to a document entitled "Declaration in the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions" was supposed to prove with respect to suggestions that the Vatican claimed to lead the one true christian church and thus superior to any others Christian denominations.

Even then it's quite clear in it's insistence that while there may be "rays of truth" to be found in other religions it is their own one that is the light itself. That is hard not to see as a statement of superiority. Which is fair enough Pope Paul VI was hardly likely to issue a statement saying "I've just read the Koran and had a think about it and I reckon they're right and we've been getting things wrong for the last millenia"

As I say thinking that your beliefs, spiritual or rational, are correct (and thus superior) is intrinsic to the nature of believing. To pretend that it's only people you don't like that do so is a poor show (at least in my opinion, which is better than yours).

[THE KING]

It's difficult to see what posting a link to a document entitled "Declaration in the relation of the Church to non-Christian religions" was supposed to prove with respect to suggestions that the Vatican claimed to lead the one true christian church and thus superior to any others Christian denominations.

Even then it's quite clear in it's insistence that while there may be "rays of truth" to be found in other religions it is their own one that is the light itself. That is hard not to see as a statement of superiority. Which is fair enough Pope Paul VI was hardly likely to issue a statement saying "I've just read the Koran and had a think about it and I reckon they're right and we've been getting things wrong for the last millenia"

As I say thinking that your beliefs, spiritual or rational, are correct (and thus superior) is intrinsic to the nature of believing. To pretend that it's only people you don't like that do so is a poor show (at least in my opinion, which is better than yours).

Thinking that your spiritual beliefs are correct doesnt mean you believe they are superior?!

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Thinking that your spiritual beliefs are correct doesnt mean you believe they are superior?!

Is that a question or a statement?

[Jacksgranda]

Is that a question or a statement?

It depends what he thinks the words mean.

[LongTimeLurker]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

[1320Lichtie]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

It would be a start

Division so early on can't be helpful

[The OP]

I went to a non-denominational school where my atheist self was labelled a ****** b*****d.

Integration didn't work well in that instance. It's almost as though these attitudes are learned at home.

Tbf though, I tend to broadly agree that these days sectarianism is overrated as an issue. I know in my parent's day you could be denied a job for kicking with the wrong foot and people looked down upon 'mixed marriages' but I can't think of any way in which sectarianism has impinged on my life, other than a bit of name calling and being woken up (hungover) by zombies marching in time to the unnecessary din made by these bigoted supremacist walks.

[The OP]

I recall H_B and others used to take up the mantle of catholic schools and argue that non-denominational schools are actually Protestant schools. My high school never struck me as a Protestant school but my primary school definitely was (although apparently we had a chaplain at high school who I'd just never seen or heard from).

It does tend to be staunch Protestants and OO members who blame the existence of Catholic schools for prejudice and argue for integration, in my experience, although I personally do believe there should be no religion in schools at all. Institutional and societal anti-catholic bias certainly existed in a far more extreme form before the schools came into being and the schools aren't wholly segregated. In every school you'll find a proportion from the other sect and a proportion from non-Christian groups.

A further thought is that at my school there was more gang rivalry than anything else, and Catholics and Protestants from one area would generally be united against the Catholics and Protestants from another area.

[LongTimeLurker]

By way of a reality check. There is no God just as there is no tooth fairy and no Santa Claus. The overwhelming majority of the younger generation grasp this. Splitting children up based on differing ways to worship an imaginary sky fairy is backward and grotesque.

[~~~]

Best way to end so called "sectarianism" is to integrate the schools. Until the politicians and the chattering classes in general are willing to tackle that they should just shut up about it, because they are part of the problem.

Doesn't seem to be a problem in such places as Canada,or even England. People make that statement without any substance.

I went to both a Catholic school (not for religious reasons, it was by far the best school in the area) and a "non dom" we had a week visit from the local Chaplin which I believe is rather common.

[~~~]

It is the only form of real segregation that exists

You know i'd have to denounce my religion to be accepted into the royal family. Or swear an oath of allegiance to the "defender of the faith" just to become a MP

It's always amazing how people seem to forget that under law Catholics are banned from succession to the crown.

Never mind though, what about they schools eh? You know the ones that you don't even have to be catholic to attend