Scottish Independence

[1320Lichtie]

Rangers home one has same detail.

[Blaven]

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1403041005.795568.jpgImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1403041013.958238.jpg

Rangers home one has same detail.

Sorry but I just cant bring myself to say the Celtic tops a cracker, but good on them though.

I cant bring myself to say anything about the sevco one at all.

[H_B]

So what you are really trying to get at is that the SNP were an irrelevant threat back then in the same way that UKIP are an irrelevent threat now?

Yes, UKIP are also a complete irrelevance in General Elections.

[H_B]

Disasterous? They increased both their actual share and their percentage share since the previous 1983 and won an additional seat - hardly disasterous was it champ?

Yes, the 1987 was an absolute disaster for the SNP, as was 1992.

They were a complete irrelevance when the Constitutional Convention was established in the late 1980s. 14.1 % of the vote. Trailing way behind the Lib Dems and miles behind the Tories in the popular vote

Labour increased their number of seats by 9 in Scotland in 1987. The beneficiaries of the Conservatives' absolute collapse.

Labour delivered the Scottish Parliament, on the back of a cross-party consensus, and civic consensus that this was desirable, following the Thatcher years and legislation like the Poll Tax. The SNP were standing on the sidelines in the huff. Until they realised they'd been completely outmanoevred, then asked to join in the game.

Gradualists like Salmond, who favoured deveolution as the next step, won. Independence only types like Sillars lost. After the humiliation of the 1992 election campaign. The SNP were a shambles until Salmond took over and no threat at all to an all-conquering government-elect Labour party of the mid-1990s, just about to win a landslide election victory.

[~~~]

The seethe HB gets over the SNP is hilarious, unfortunately watching him act like an arse and take a day just to make a point isn't so funny

[Blaven]

Yes, UKIP are also a complete irrelevance in General Elections.

SNP- irrelevance in a general election = change of political landscape of Scotland. Cos Labour wanted to kill off Nationalism.

UKIP- irrelevance in general election= (with no MPs) very possible change of political landscape of UK. Cos every UK party are sh*te bags that cant stick to their own values.

[Blaven]

Yes, the 1987 was an absolute disaster for the SNP, as was 1992.

They were a complete irrelevance when the Constitutional Convention was established in the late 1980s. 14.1 % of the vote. Trailing way behind the Lib Dems and miles behind the Tories in the popular vote

Labour increased their number of seats by 9 in Scotland in 1987. The beneficiaries of the Conservatives' absolute collapse.

Labour delivered the Scottish Parliament, on the back of a cross-party consensus, and civic consensus that this was desirable, following the Thatcher years and legislation like the Poll Tax. The SNP were standing on the sidelines in the huff. Until they realised they'd been completely outmanoevred, then asked to join in the game.

Gradualists like Salmond, who favoured deveolution as the next step, won. Independence only types like Sillars lost. After the humiliation of the 1992 election campaign. The SNP were a shambles until Salmond took over and no threat at all to an all-conquering government-elect Labour party of the mid-1990s, just about to win a landslide election victory.

Into the third day now and still no point . ( geordy accent )

[H_B]

SNP- irrelevance in a general election = change of political landscape of Scotland. Cos Labour wanted to kill off Nationalism.

UKIP- irrelevance in general election= (with no MPs) very possible change of political landscape of UK. Cos every UK party are sh*te bags that cant stick to their own values.

1) This would be the Labour Party that had just mauled the Tories in Scotland in 1987? An election where the SNP trailed in a distant 4th, a country mile behind Labur and the Conservatives, and even 5% behind the Liberal Democrats?

That was the threat of Nationalism Labour were desperate to quash?

Or was it in 1992? When the SNP won, again, erm 3 seats and trailed miles behind the ailing Conservative party in the popular vote?

Was this the surge of Nationalism that Labour were desperate to quell?

The SNP were a complete non-issue in the late 80s and early to mid-90s. A joke outfit led by a clown like Sillars.

"Free By 93"

[Burma]

Eh, the Constitutional Convention that brought about the Scottish Parliament was established in 1989.

Just 2 years after the SNP had won a disasterous 14.1% of the vote in the 1987 general election and were a complete shambles.

Disasterous? They increased both their actual share and their percentage share since the previous 1983 and won an additional seat - hardly disasterous was it champ?

The commission you refer to did not deliver its final report until 1995. A full three years after the SNP had doubled its support at a general election since 1983. Motivated by its concerns over the rise in Nationalism and SNP successes in council elections where its vote had increased year on year (bi-annually of course) Blair decided to let Dewar write up a watered down version of devolution.

[Guest]

Has HB resorted to living off past glories now when the SNP weren't a force?

Tough times.

[Burma]

"Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote No you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament."

-Andrew Neil, BBC Political Editor

[H_B]

Has HB resorted to living off past glories now when the SNP weren't a force?

Tough times.

Eh, no. I'm pointing out that the SNP weren't a force to (once again) slap down the absolutely laughable canard that Labour proposed the Scottish Parliament through fear of the SNP. (An SNP who were an electoral laughing stock in the 80s and early 90s. )

[H_B]

Just let this one sink in - "absolutely horsed by the Tories".

Yes that's "absolutely horsed by the Tories. In Scotland."

[Blaven]

1) This would be the Labour Party that had just mauled the Tories in Scotland in 1987? An election where the SNP trailed in a distant 4th, a country mile behind Labur and the Conservatives, and even 5% behind the Liberal Democrats?

That was the threat of Nationalism Labour were desperate to quash?

Or was it in 1992? When the SNP won, again, erm 3 seats and trailed miles behind the ailing Conservative party in the popular vote?

Was this the surge of Nationalism that Labour were desperate to quell?

The SNP were a complete non-issue in the late 80s and early to mid-90s. A joke outfit led by a clown like Sillars.

"Free By 93"

So is your point that Labour did not need to give Scotland the choice to have its own parliment and to later vote for said parliment?

And by so making this point disprove that the desire of the Scottish people before then was for independence?

And to further point out that it should be Labour who should be held to account if Scotland do choose to go for independence as they are really who set the ball rolling?

[Baxter Parp]

Yes, UKIP are also a complete irrelevance in General Elections.

And yet they are putting pressure on both Labour and the Conservatives to address UKIPs agenda, how can that possibly be?

[H_B]

"Devolution, the Calman Commission, the Scotland Bill, the Edinburgh Agreement, all of this and more you have, is because Westminster parties are scared of the SNP. If you vote No you massively change the balance of power and they will not only give you nothing, but will probably take powers away from the Scottish Parliament."

-Andrew Neil, BBC Political Editor

"More than any other single event, the Poll Tax galvanised support for Home Rule in Scotland. Civic Scotland – whatever that is, as the Lady might have put it – united in morally-superior opposition to Thatcherism and all its works"

"As he (Alex Salmond) said today, Thatcherism helped conceive the Scottish parliament."

Alex Massie

[H_B]

And yet they are putting pressure on both Labour and the Conservatives to address UKIPs agenda, how can that possibly be?

Because many people in Britain support this agenda, even though they won't vote UKIP.

It's a vote winner.

[H_B]

So is your point that Labour did not need to give Scotland the choice to have its own parliment and to later vote for said parliment?

You really are very stupid aren't you?

Yes, the point is that the Scottish Parliament came about to create a bulwark against Westminster policies such as the Poll Tax. It was nothing to do with Scottish Independence, which was a complete non-factor in 1989.

[Baxter Parp]

Because many people in Britain support this agenda, even though they won't vote UKIP.

It's a vote winner.

How did they win the European Elections then?

[Blaven]

Just let this one sink in - "absolutely horsed by the Tories".

Yes that's "absolutely horsed by the Tories. In Scotland."

Awe naw. Have you found out the deep dark shame of the SNP?

How will the SNP ever recover from the revelation that the Tories used to be the second party in Scotland?

If this is what you have been trying to squeeze out of us for three days, then "o dear".