Scottish Independence

[Blaven]

I have listened to the views of an 86 year old man and he is voting YES. Many years ago he worked in a major shipyard in Aberdeen and saw contracts going down south to England. They all worked their socks off and were rewarded in the end by redundancy because of choices made by the Westminster government. It never mattered that they were better and more efficient than their southern counterparts, the decision had been made, a political one.

Older people have more wisdom. This man as I have already mentioned is 86 years old and like many others he has been through it and experienced life under this dictatorship. And it is a dictatorship, let us not fool ourselves because whether we vote Labour or Conservative or whoever, the current system does not give us a voice. It is time for Scotland to stand up and raise our voice.

I was previously an undecided voter but I WILL be voting YES and so are the rest of my family. In a situation like this where we are being shafted everyday, there comes a time when enough is enough. We need a change. Keeping Westminster in power over a strong nation like our own is like the cuckoo stealing the nest.

All the no voters take heed, man up or woman up, grow yourself some and vote YES or we will continue in this current mess if you don't. Ask yourself if you are really happy with the way things are right now, look deep down into your soul and you will find the answer. Personally I would prefer to have the bondage of slavery removed from our heads.

Welcome home Stinky Bone.

[Confidemus]

I have two pressing questions:

1) Has anyone seen Banterman lately?

2) Has Lex shown face since his betting clusterfuck of the other day?

[Blaven]

I have two pressing questions:

1) Has anyone seen Banterman lately?

2) Has Lex shown face since his betting clusterfuck of the other day?

Naw.

Naw.

Now what are your pressing questions?

[Confidemus]

Naw.

Naw.

Now what are your pressing questions?

Should I have jam or marmalade on my toast this morning?

[Blaven]

It has taken a long road of discovery, but knowing the facts and listened to many elders the decision has been made. Yes is the only chance we have.

In an Independent Scotland you can choose either! Let us all celebrate on the 18th by having a full Scottish breakfast, then return to our own healthy ways!

Its the one flaw of the Scottish psyche which pisses me off more than any other. That we HAVE to wake up to it.

It really should be an awareness that we dont have to seek out, to realize its there.

[boabinoban]

Hunterston, Ayrhsire was planned to be the place for an oil refinery back in 1971 but the MoD blocked it cos they wanted said it would interfere with the nukes path to Loch Long. Just think what that, plus the oil exploration in the Firth of Clyde would have made to Ayrshire and the whole of Scotland. FFS Ayrshire is one of the most sorry parts of the UK. Also there is a village at Portavadie in the Kyles of bute that was meant to be the site where they constructed concrete oil platforms. Now it's just a load of concrete beside a huge millionaire's yachting marina.

THIS is the deal that we get from the UK. Nuclear weapns that a huge amount of people don't want on our patch, that cost billions to service each year and will cost upwards of £130bn to replace. Where if an accident was to take place there would be accepable collateral damage compared to if it happened in Portsmouth.

Yeah Scotland get a great deal from the UK.

[Afro]

My Dad says he's swung towards a No vote because he feels that Scottish people don't want it enough, and that the people in this country aren't hard-working enough to make independence work.

Agree, or disagree with this view?

[boabinoban]

My Dad says he's swung towards a No vote because he feels that Scottish people don't want it enough, and that the people in this country aren't hard-working enough to make independence work.

Agree, or disagree with this view?

Voting no because they don't think Scotland wants it enough is a sheep going along with the flock's choice. Just think though if the nukes were gone and there was oil exploration restarted in the firth of Clyde, with an oil refinery in Ayrshire. That alone would wake one huge section of Scotland up. Instead we've got the exact opposite. People with no jobs and little hope. Things could have een so different.

[Afro]

Voting no because they don't think Scotland wants it enough is a sheep going along with the flock's choice. Just think though if the nukes were gone and there was oil exploration restarted in the firth of Clyde, with an oil refinery in Ayrshire. That alone would wake one huge section of Scotland up. Instead we've got the exact opposite. People with no jobs and little hope. Things could have een so different.

It's bizarre that his main reasoning behind a No vote is that; up until about 6 weeks ago he was a dead cert Yes vote. I think his rationale is more to do with dealing with people who could be considered scroungers on a day to day basis wearing him down. But, as I did ask, is changing peoples' mentality of living off the system and refusing to work likely to be implemented under Westminister rule? I'm not so sure. My personal opinion is that there would be greater scope for a change in mentality through independence.

[Afro]

Better Together.

What's your reasoning behind (what I assume) is a No vote, 8MileBU? I know I've joined this party a tad late and it's interesting to see a few different viewpoints on here. I would wade back through the past 400-odd pages but I quite frankly can't be arsed.

[boabinoban]

Better Together.

Blinding contribution. Sheer poetry. Beautiful

[boabinoban]

What's your reasoning behind (what I assume) is a No vote, 8MileBU? I know I've joined this party a tad late and it's interesting to see a few different viewpoints on here. I would wade back through the past 400-odd pages but I quite frankly can't be arsed.

I did what you did and just jumped right in. f**k it. There seems, I say seems, to be some informed debates going on from both sides, but as always I see a whole load of uninformed, blinkered, ignorant shite here too. Pretty much all from the No camp.

[Blaven]

My Dad says he's swung towards a No vote because he feels that Scottish people don't want it enough, and that the people in this country aren't hard-working enough to make independence work.

Agree, or disagree with this view?

What paper does he read?

[Afro]

What paper does he read?

None. I think the general behaviour of the media with regards to stories they run and the way they go about getting them has put him off, frankly. Like I said in my second post a few ones up, I imagine dealing with the dregs of society through his line of work (telephone engineer) will have worn him down.

Generalisations like Scotland being too lazy does a great disservice to the hard-working folk who make up the majority. Everyone's entitled to their opinion though, and in a way I can see there's a valid point in his, in amongst all of it.

[Confidemus]

None. I think the general behaviour of the media with regards to stories they run and the way they go about getting them has put him off, frankly. Like I said in my second post a few ones up, I imagine dealing with the dregs of society through his line of work (telephone engineer) will have worn him down.

Generalisations like Scotland being too lazy does a great disservice to the hard-working folk who make up the majority. Everyone's entitled to their opinion though, and in a way I can see there's a valid point in his, in amongst all of it.

It sounds to me like if your Dad is seeing those people as the "dregs of society", he's pretty much made his mind up. The vast, vast, VAST majority of people on benefits aren't "dregs" or "scroungers". They've simply found themselves in a situation where they need help and Westminster are failing them left, right and centre.

They don't need to be belittled or reminded any more how shite they are, I'm sure their sense of self worth is already pretty low. With welfare cuts set to continue under Tories and Labour promising to go deeper with their austerity measures, nothing is being done to help these people. They're treated like shite at job centres, given baffling forms to fill in and then penalised and sanctioned if they can't get access to the internet to complete forms.

Then, for some, they have to suffer the indignity of getting handouts at foodbanks.

Now, obviously, this doesn't paint a picture of everyone on benefits, but a large majority, I believe, fall into the above category. What is needed is a look at the root cause of these endless cycles and to see how they can be addressed, through meaningful training, work that actually pays a living wage and even respect and humility.

As a society, I think we have a duty to help those in society who have fallen on hard times, and to provide sufficient support for those who cannot work, through no fault of their own.

What they don't need is to be called the dregs of society. And all this, I feel, can only be addressed in an iScotland. Why? Because Westminster doesn't give a f**k about them.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

And if Ad Lib fancies a tl;dr response, or H_B wants to thrown some condescensding questions my way - don't bother.

[Afro]

It sounds to me like if your Dad is seeing those people as the "dregs of society", he's pretty much made his mind up. The vast, vast, VAST majority of people on benefits aren't "dregs" or "scroungers". They've simply found themselves in a situation where they need help and Westminster are failing them left, right and centre.

They don't need to be belittled or reminded any more how shite they are, I'm sure their sense of self worth is already pretty low. With welfare cuts set to continue under Tories and Labour promising to go deeper with their austerity measures, nothing is being done to help these people. They're treated like shite at job centres, given baffling forms to fill in and then penalised and sanctioned if they can't get access to the internet to complete forms.

Then, for some, they have to suffer the indignity of getting handouts at foodbanks.

Now, obviously, this doesn't paint a picture of everyone on benefits, but a large majority, I believe, fall into the above category. What is needed is a look at the root cause of these endless cycles and to see how they can be addressed, through meaningful training, work that actually pays a living wage and even respect and humility.

As a society, I think we have a duty to help those in society who have fallen on hard times, and to provide sufficient support for those who cannot work, through no fault of their own.

What they don't need is to be called the dregs of society. And all this, I feel, can only be addressed in an iScotland. Why? Because Westminster doesn't give a f**k about them.

Sorry for the rant, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

And if Ad Lib fancies a tl;dr response, or H_B wants to thrown some condescensding questions my way - don't bother.

Should have expanded on my initial use of the term - folk who show little to no desire to work yet are quite happy to take benefits are what I would class as "dregs of society."

Other than that, good post and pretty much sums up why I'm voting yes. Can't get my head round folk who are unwilling to grasp the opportunity of leaving endless Conservatism at Westminister.

[ForzaDundee]

Almost there. #YesDundee

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/two-teams-one-city-one-goal

[ArabianKnight]

Almost there. #YesDundee

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/two-teams-one-city-one-goal

Yassss!

[pandarilla]

Almost there. #YesDundee

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/two-teams-one-city-one-goal

I've just stuck my tenner in.

Anyone want a badge?

[Blaven]

Going to take a stab in the dark here.

I reckon the designer of the Scotland commonwealth games uniform/outfit, is a confirmed No voter?

I feel like my projectile vomiting could win gold though.

Salmond pink Scotland top has had a reprieve.