milton75 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Tell me if I am pedantic but you're kicking the reformers for......reforming? Apart from stating the blindingly obvious I am struggling to see a point here. You also misjudge it badly when you talk about, "The theology of Saint Augustine.". This had some chords some time after Calvin but wasn't a major reformation theme. The reformation under Calvin, Luther, Knox and Zwingli had heehaw to do with Augustine. I wasn't kicking the reformers at all. I said they'd seen Christianity take a wrong turn and wanted to reverse it. Whether that's a criticism is down to whether you think there was anything wrong with the Church of Rome in the 16th century. Our Aberdonian correspondent had suggested that "their entire raison d'être is based on being a reformed and more modern take on the fairy tale in question" I'd pointed out that far from being a modernisation process the reformation was intended to be retrograde and for what seemed like a good reason. And while far better read people than us could argue for ever about how much of the theology of Calvin et al. was built on Augustinian foundations the point is that the other major influences Saint Paul and the Bible itself were even older. It may have been better to say something along the lines "Rewind theology to the time of Saint Augustine, undoing the damage that had been inflicted since then" I'd like to kick reformers. Think about what religion means; it's faith. Reforming usually means diluting a message because it's politically expedient, or it's clear that without reform a societal shift means less arses on pews. Hence the Catholics inventing (and since doing away with) Limbo, and various churches allowing women ministers or gay folk. It's insane. If they had real faith they wouldn't give two hoots about what society thought; they'd still be "in the right" regardless. I have more respect for faiths that stick to their guns, no matter how deluded. At least they're being honest. I don't understand how "fundamentalist" became a bad word. If they really believe some deity or another wants them to go around killing folk, who am I to say they're wrong? Anyway, I still want someone to give me a good reason that we couldn't have every type of marcher all marching together on the same day. What would be wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'd like to kick reformers. Think about what religion means; it's faith. Reforming usually means diluting a message because it's politically expedient, or it's clear that without reform a societal shift means less arses on pews. Hence the Catholics inventing (and since doing away with) Limbo, and various churches allowing women ministers or gay folk. It's insane. If they had real faith they wouldn't give two hoots about what society thought; they'd still be "in the right" regardless. I have more respect for faiths that stick to their guns, no matter how deluded. At least they're being honest. I don't understand how "fundamentalist" became a bad word. If they really believe some deity or another wants them to go around killing folk, who am I to say they're wrong? Anyway, I still want someone to give me a good reason that we couldn't have every type of marcher all marching together on the same day. What would be wrong with that? Can I suggest asking the already hard pushed police My mother used to purport a, "Put them all in a large field away from everyone and let them sort it all out", theory to solving the "Troubles". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I know we're trying to laugh at this pish, but seriously seething that this bigotry has infected our country. Also they're throwing in racism as well I see. Guessing they hate LGBTs, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists too. Pretty sure there is a rainbow flag in their as well, it's as if they had a meeting to make sure they can be as bigoted as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's up to each P&B'er to judge what they think of my posts, but at least I'm not a serial alias. Eh Wunfy? Or should I call you Phasma? I'm just celebrating my History .......... Ach, you are by far from the worst blue tinged poster on here, but your view on Derry City and the Chris Huhne's shows the blinkers come down at a certain point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Can I suggest asking the already hard pushed police My mother used to purport a, "Put them all in a large field away from everyone and let them sort it all out", theory to solving the "Troubles". And yet you whine about towing the island into the middle of the Atlantic, the logical extension to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Can I suggest asking the already hard pushed police My mother used to purport a, "Put them all in a large field away from everyone and let them sort it all out", theory to solving the "Troubles". But why would it be worse for the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 But why would it be worse for the police? 'Cos they are hard pushed . Doms at the Masonic on Thursday, bowls at the OL on Friday, taking into custody bigoted protesters and letting them go 'no charge' with a handshake on Saturday....... It's all go bein a rozzer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 And yet you whine about towing the island into the middle of the Atlantic, the logical extension to this.^^^Chose to study Arts and humanities instead of Geology and Civil Engineering IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Not sure on that. He definitely doesn't seem to have studied logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milton75 Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 'Cos they are hard pushed . Doms at the Masonic on Thursday, bowls at the OL on Friday, taking into custody bigoted protesters and letting them go 'no charge' with a handshake on Saturday....... It's all go bein a rozzer..... Aye, but my point is: IF we believe that the marches are genuine celebrations or peaceful demonstrations, then it doesn't matter if they're all together. IF that's not the case, and the police feel that the people involved can't be trusted not to have a ruck, then they breach the rules in the right to gather and express themselves laid out earlier in this thread. It's either one or the other. If they can be trusted, they can march alongside whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 And yet you whine about towing the island into the middle of the Atlantic, the illogical extension to this. She was referring to the paramilitaries on both sides, not the ordinary decent folk. But I suspect you knew that.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I'm just celebrating my History .......... Ach, you are by far from the worst blue tinged poster on here, but your view on Derry City and the Chris Huhne's shows the blinkers come down at a certain point. I seriously can't remember ever expressing an opinion on Chris Huhne, and I'm certainly not a Derry City fan I would also argue that everyone has "blinkers" when it comes to certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I seriously can't remember ever expressing an opinion on Chris Huhne, and I'm certainly not a Derry City fan I would also argue that everyone has "blinkers" when it comes to certain things. Especially horses?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Aye, but my point is: IF we believe that the marches are genuine celebrations or peaceful demonstrations, then it doesn't matter if they're all together. IF that's not the case, and the police feel that the people involved can't be trusted not to have a ruck, then they breach the rules in the right to gather and express themselves laid out earlier in this thread. It's either one or the other. If they can be trusted, they can march alongside whoever. I think the majority of us know that this would be putting oil and water together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 I think the majority of us know that this would be putting oil and water together. Which is a vinaigrette.........which compliments anything 'Green'. I'm sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You can police it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing (2) Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 You can police it then. Give me the pension and the shoot to kill authorisation and job done. No more marches next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 She was referring to the paramilitaries on both sides, not the ordinary decent folk. But I suspect you knew that.......... Except for the inconvenient truth that the 'ordinary, decent folk' have played an active role in sheltering their preferred bigots for decades, and a passive role as an unchecked recruiting ground for paramilitaries. Which is why bigots, who can be found anywhere in the civilised world, can't operate paramilitaries there, yet do so at will in the failed statelet. Tow it. Leave it to fester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Except for the inconvenient truth that the 'ordinary, decent folk' have played an active role in sheltering their preferred bigots for decades, and a passive role as an unchecked recruiting ground for paramilitaries. Which is why bigots, who can be found anywhere in the civilised world, can't operate paramilitaries there, yet do so at will in the failed statelet. Tow it. Leave it to fester. Blah, blah, blah.......... "Sheltering" intimates a willingness when, in reality, people were shit scared to face them down, quite understandably, but we've been over all this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Give me the pension and the shoot to kill authorisation and job done. No more marches next year we've already done this in Norn' Iron - some found it less palatable than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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