Racist Ulster Loyalists fly KKK flag in east Belfast

[LongTimeLurker]

This leads to folk saying stuff like "your name isn't really Caoimhin" it's Kevin...

"Is that a name or a tropical disease?", used to be another approach on that. Think the poster who wasn't called Kevin by his parents would not have been wound up like that if his posts were less shrill and extreme.

[ForeverSinging]

Republican groups have said similar statements about the Ulster/Scots language/heritage.......Some people need to move on, live and let live.also, stop making sweeping generations towards communities based on their own bigotry.

Yeah, okay.

And I feel exactly the same with regards to Ulster Scots. Live and let live as you say.

[ForeverSinging]

"Is that a name or a tropical disease?", used to be another approach on that. Think the poster who wasn't called Kevin by his parents would not have been wound up like that if his posts were less shrill and extreme.

Yeah true, but it isn't always said as a joke is it?

[parsforlife]

As someone who doesn't have much time for sentiment I personally think naming your child to keep culture alive is rather odd behaviour. I don't know if that's the case here but I really can't be bothered with doing things just because it tradition or culture. As I say it's odd behavoir.

[ForeverSinging]

I guess it just depends how important culture is to you. If someone feels that their culture under threat they're going to try and do more to promote it. Presumably the parents like the name too obvs.

[parsforlife]

I guess it just depends how important culture is to you. If someone feels that their culture under threat they're going to try and do more to promote it. Presumably the parents like the name too obvs.

But my point is culture isn't that important to me, cultures merging together has been happening throughout history, and thats a rather good thing.

[ForeverSinging]

But my point is culture isn't that important to me, cultures merging together has been happening throughout history, and thats a rather good thing.

I would say that it's neither a good or bad thing. It just happens. Sometimes it can be generally good and sometimes generally bad. For every harmonious union that's brought about a merging of cultures there's a genocidal oppression.

[parsforlife]

I would say that it's neither a good or bad thing. It just happens. Sometimes it can be generally good and sometimes generally bad. For every harmonious union that's brought about a merging of cultures there's a genocidal oppression.

But that's not merging of cultures.

[ForeverSinging]

But that's not merging of cultures.

No? I don't necessarilly mean genocide but any use of force. It merges the two cultures together whether the subservient one likes it or not.

[parsforlife]

No? I don't necessarilly mean genocide but any use of force. It merges the two cultures together whether the subservient one likes it or not.

no It's not a merger if it's one culture remaining as is and surprising another culture.

[ForeverSinging]

no It's not a merger if it's one culture remaining as is and surprising another culture.

Well the dominant culture rarely remains entirely as it is, so although it's forced it is a merger of sorts. It'll take in some of the language and habits of the other culture.

This is what happened in Northern Ireland (as far as I understand from looking at the internet but I could be wrong) and many other places around the world and is just as likely to happen as two countries happily joining together.

I'd agree that your version of two cultures merging is obviously decent but it's never really like that imo.

[parsforlife]

Well the dominant culture rarely remains entirely as it is, so although it's forced it is a merger of sorts. It'll take in some of the language and habits of the other culture.

This is what happened in Northern Ireland (as far as I understand from looking at the internet but I could be wrong) and many other places around the world and is just as likely to happen as two countries happily joining together.

I'd agree that your version of two cultures merging is obviously decent but it's never really like that imo.

Ye fair enough on your opinion of where merger stops and takeover begins, slightly different to mine but not hugely off.

My version is happening in the uk for decades, if not centuries, it's not idealistic, but their is a sharing of culture between the various community's that make up the population, as I say it's rather good. We have seen mass immigration from all-over , each adding their own little bit.

[dillinger]

Norn Ireland pays far less tax than it receives in state funding, over and above the government deficit, a scenario that has been in place for decades.

Nice try anyway.

Yeah was a bit tough for businesses to thrive during and now after the carnage of a 30 year terrorism campaign.

[dillinger]

I must admit when I was in Belfast almost every c**t would ask you 'Celtic or Rangers?' when they discovered you were from Glasgow.

The only place i get that is in Scotland.

And they seem shocked when you say none.

[Half Rice Half Chips]

The name Kevin derives from Caoimhin, not the other way round. So Caoimhin can say his name is the original whereas Kevin is the b*****dized version.

http://www.behindthename.com/name/kevin

" Anglicized form of the Irish name "Caoimhín", derived from the older Irish"Cóemgein", composed of the Old Irish elements "cóem" "kind, gentle, handsome" and "gein" "birth". Saint Caoimhín established a monastery in Glendalough, Ireland in the 6th century and is the patron saint of Dublin. It became popular in the English-speaking world outside of Ireland in the 20th century."

[ForeverSinging]

Ye fair enough on your opinion of where merger stops and takeover begins, slightly different to mine but not hugely off.

My version is happening in the uk for decades, if not centuries, it's not idealistic, but their is a sharing of culture between the various community's that make up the population, as I say it's rather good. We have seen mass immigration from all-over , each adding their own little bit.

I would say that every time two groups (you could probably even take this down to the level of individual people) come together there's going a bit of a takeover and a bit of a merger.

There's not going to be an absolute equilibrium in the change that the "coming together" brings about and one of them's going to end up a little pissed off.

It's like any relationship imo, there's going to be a bit of tension but at the end of the day you've got to decide if it's worth it.

Sometimes a more dominant one is going to come along and treat the other one like shit (oppression) but it's still a relationship at the end of the day whether the subserviient one likes it or not.

The UK is not the worst for this but it's not great either. We've had the highland clearances, the plantations, the aliens act etc. which were all designed to impose the culture of England (or Britain)on the others.

In the context of the independence referendum I'd say that Scotland's culture is subservient at the moment and that voting yes would change that.

That's not to say we don't have looooads in common with the rest of the UK obviously and that's good.

All imo obv.

[parsforlife]

I would say that every time two groups (you could probably even take this down to the level of individual people) come together there's going a bit of a takeover and a bit of a merger.

There's not going to be an absolute equilibrium in the change that the "coming together" brings about and one of them's going to end up a little pissed off.

It's like any relationship imo, there's going to be a bit of tension but at the end of the day you've got to decide if it's worth it.

Sometimes a more dominant one is going to come along and treat the other one like shit (oppression) but it's still a relationship at the end of the day whether the subserviient one likes it or not.

The UK is not the worst for this but it's not great either. We've had the highland clearances, the plantations, the aliens act etc. which were all designed to impose the culture of England (or Britain)on the others.

In the context of the independence referendum I'd say that Scotland's culture is subservient at the moment and that voting yes would change that.

That's not to say we don't have looooads in common with the rest of the UK obviously and that's good.

All imo obv.

Yes their sometimes is occasional tension and the is it worth it question does pop up, but in the vast majority of cases the answer is no.

Quoting things 300 year old isn't helpful here, I agree that they were obsessive, but they were that long ago what's the point at fighting back against them? We've moved passed that.

I certainly don't feel subservient to "English culture" and whilst people may be more forthright with "Scottish culture" post independence I don't think it would change much.

I'll repeat, doing thing cos it "our culture" is silly, if someone wants to eat haggis or play the bagpipes then go ahead, but it should be becouse the like those things , not in anyway to promote/continue some idea of what is our culture and what isn't. Similar to the naming thing that got this started, if they parents are saying they like x name and picking that then go ahead, but if the thought process is I'd like my child to have an Irish/polish/scottish/English etc name then it's daft and rather weird.

[ForeverSinging]

Yes their sometimes is occasional tension and the is it worth it question does pop up, but in the vast majority of cases the answer is no.

Quoting things 300 year old isn't helpful here, I agree that they were obsessive, but they were that long ago what's the point at fighting back against them? We've moved passed that.

I certainly don't feel subservient to "English culture" and whilst people may be more forthright with "Scottish culture" post independence I don't think it would change much.

I'll repeat, doing thing cos it "our culture" is silly, if someone wants to eat haggis or play the bagpipes then go ahead, but it should be becouse the like those things , not in anyway to promote/continue some idea of what is our culture and what isn't. Similar to the naming thing that got this started, if they parents are saying they like x name and picking that then go ahead, but if the thought process is I'd like my child to have an Irish/polish/scottish/English etc name then it's daft and rather weird.

I quoted those things because there's a narrative that cultures (such as the Scotland and England's) just happily agree to mutually slide together and that's not the case.

The narrative that the Scottish and English cultures came together in a mutual sort of ray of sunshine is promoted because it enforces an idea that there is a "natural" order to the way these things come about and that Scottish nationalism is inherently "unnatural" and somehow makes less sense.

The point is that cultures are always competing with each other in one way or another and whether anyone likes it or not that is no different today.

The catalyst of change can be blatant and unashamed, as we see with the Highland Clearances or extermination of Bosniaks by the Serbians, but it can also be subtle and even unintentional, as we see with the promotion of "proper pronunciation" by the bbc.

These things are done to promote one way of doing things as "the best". When you promote one accent/religion/tradition as superior you undermine those of other groups and therefore the entire group itself.

When someone suggests that the word "ken" is parochial they are not only undermining that word but the whole society that uses it and therefore everything else that comes along with that society (be it music, culture, politics).

When people listen to the bagpipes, eat haggis or sing a national anthem (besides from perhaps actually liking them) they are doing so to show an allegiance to the wider culture and the genuinely important things, such as a shared political belief, that are tied into that.

When one part of a culture dies (for example a different law being imposed on a country) then the other parts of the culture, such as names, grow in significance because they are representative of the culture as a whole and they ferl the need to support that culture because of the threat it's under.

Whether we like it or not the institutions of the UK have been set up to promote a certain sort of Englishness as that dominant culture.

Is it worth promoting your own culture? I would say when we are formed by our cultures to such an extent (as irrational and emotional as that may be) then yes it is.

There are more important things as well obviously but we are not being asked about those things in the independence referendum.

Also what people listen to, eat, watch on an individual level is obviously up to them! (Although supporting hearts is an inexcusable crime against humanity and fashion).

This is a bit of a bible so, yeah enjoy reading and it'll be interesting to hear your reply.

[Audaces Fortuna Juvat]

Norn Ireland pays far less tax than it receives in state funding, over and above the government deficit, a scenario that has been in place for decades.

Nice try anyway.

The eternal student is worried about taxation levels

How much funding have you had over the years?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

The name Kevin derives from Caoimhin, not the other way round. So Caoimhin can say his name is the original whereas Kevin is the b*****dized version.

It's probably truer to say that they both transliterations from the Old Irish "Coemgen"