General Election 2015

[Mr Bairn]

No, what a stupid thing to say. You're blatantly a troll.

Why should they all be forced out if they don't agree? I'm telling you, all of these arguments can be reduced to the fact that Scotland is a nation.

[FuzzyAffro]

Exactly, and also a country. No getting away from that, the UK is (clue is in the name) a political union, so totally different from Scotland.

[Mr Bairn]

Exactly, and also a country. No getting away from that, the UK is (clue is in the name) a political union, so totally different from Scotland.

However you choose to label it, the UK is just a member of the European Union like France or Germany. If any other country had a referendum on leaving it would be on a "one voter, one vote" basis and the UK referendum will also follow this basis.

[Kaz]

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1428412491.302567.jpg

Wonderful intervention from the great man today, talking about how Labour's values and commitment to social justice unites the party. Great to see him come out and speak out against an EU referendum. It's felt a little like people are too frightened to.

Remember when we were warned that if we left the Union we could very well face massive economic instability?

I must be imagining this but I'm sure I just saw yer man on the news warning that as part of the Union we could very well face massive economic instability if there were to be an EU referendum.

Could a Britnat explain to me how this can be?

[FuzzyAffro]

Remember when we were warned that if we left the Union we could very well face massive economic instability?

I must be imagining this but I'm sure I just saw yer man on the news warning that as part of the Union we could very well face massive economic instability if there were to be an EU referendum.

Could a Britnat explain to me how this can be?

Nah, same as I read a thing a week ago about the NHS being under threat if the Tories win next month. Its impossible, we were told a no vote would ensure the safety of the NHS, so we must both just be misreading/hearing.

[jmothecat]

Remember when we were warned that if we left the Union we could very well face massive economic instability?

I must be imagining this but I'm sure I just saw yer man on the news warning that as part of the Union we could very well face massive economic instability if there were to be an EU referendum.

Could a Britnat explain to me how this can be?

Basically what you are saying is:

P therefore Y

Not P therefore Not Y

This isn't valid however (it's called denying the antecedent). If the premise is correct, then independence would have caused economic instability. We don't have independence, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't have economic instability. It simply means we would definitely have had it (again assuming the premise is correct, which it may or may not be) if we became independent.

[FuzzyAffro]

Basically what you are saying is:

P therefor

e Y

Not P therefore Not Y

This isn't valid however (it's called denying the antecedent). If the premise is correct, then independence would have caused economic instability. We don't have independence, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't have economic instability. It simply means we would definitely have had it (again assuming the premise is correct, which it may or may not be) if we became independent.

That's faulty logic. The implication was we could avoid economic instability with a no vote. We voted no and still (potentially) have economic instability.

We were also told a no vote would protect the NHS, we voted no and now are being told the NHS is under threat.

[Mr Bairn]

Glenn Campbell on the news saying that guy did indeed defect to Labour with the SNP blaming it on soup grapes.

[jmothecat]

That's faulty logic. The implication was we could avoid economic instability with a no vote. We voted no and still (potentially) have economic instability.

We were also told a no vote would protect the NHS, we voted no and now are being told the NHS is under threat.

No it wasn't. Read his post again. He said we were warned leaving the union would cause economic instability, how come we may also face economic instability whilst remaining in the union?

[RabidAl]

That's one of the SNP policies I don't agree with. Whilst we're still one country we should decide as one country. A referendum on the EU however should trigger a further referendum on Scottish Independence.

If Scotland votes to stay in and rUK votes to leave the EU in a referendum, wouldn't we become the successor state? De facto independence?

I'll just give Mr Junker a quick call to find out...

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Basically what you are saying is:

P therefore Y

Not P therefore Not Y

This isn't valid however (it's called denying the antecedent). If the premise is correct, then independence would have caused economic instability. We don't have independence, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't have economic instability. It simply means we would definitely have had it (again assuming the premise is correct, which it may or may not be) if we became independent.

I don't think you understand what your doing.

[FuzzyAffro]

No it wasn't. Read his post again. He said we were warned leaving the union would cause economic instability, how come we may also face economic instability whilst remaining in the union?

I don't know it was your hero that was saying that just today. And I was replying to your post not his.

[MikeyWellFan]

Didn't know that jmo had morphed into a mega troll

[LongTimeLurker]

...The people of Yugoslavia could not get on so how the ***k can 28 disparate nations be forced together? It's madness....

Perhaps worth noting that two out of six ex-Yu republics are already in and the other four are in negotiations to follow.

[Kaz]

Basically what you are saying is:

P therefore Y

Not P therefore Not Y

This isn't valid however (it's called denying the antecedent). If the premise is correct, then independence would have caused economic instability. We don't have independence, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't have economic instability. It simply means we would definitely have had it (again assuming the premise is correct, which it may or may not be) if we became independent.

The difficultly with that is that the No Campaign/Better Together did try to claim that the opposite was true. Stay part of the Union for job security/NHS certainty/economic certainty.

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

Iceland has cooperative agreements with its most important partners on trade, free movement and some inter-parliamentary policymaking that predate any of the Nordic countries EU membership. Perhaps they felt the EU wasn't necessary for them but they certainly aren't narrow-minded isolationists like a good number of folk in Britain.

Scotland's would be main trading partner told us we wouldn't be allowed to use the currency we've contributed to for centuries and that we'd have border guards on our doorstep. When Scotland gets its Independence, I'd want to be in the European Community because we'd better start making some new friends.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I'm not comparing it to Scotland. I'm comparing people in one area to people in another area. Whether that's a nation, county, town or house doesn't really matter. One person in Scotland isn't any more hard done by than one person in England, or Surrey, or Glasgow, or Cardiff, or Inverness.

This is basically like telling a child to eat their dinner because "people are starving in Africa"

Why should we settle for being treated as badly as Northumbrians when it's in our power to do something about it

[Pete's Frontier]

Iceland has cooperative agreements with its most important partners on trade, free movement and some inter-parliamentary policymaking that predate any of the Nordic countries EU membership. Perhaps they felt the EU wasn't necessary for them but they certainly aren't narrow-minded isolationists like a good number of folk in Britain.

Scotland's would be main trading partner told us we wouldn't be allowed to use the currency we've contributed to for centuries and that we'd have border guards on our doorstep. When Scotland gets its Independence, I'd want to be in the European Community because we'd better start making some new friends.

I only agree with independence on these grounds:

No legacy debt - we don't need to be saddled with the interest payments on £176bn, our 10% share.

Full Republic - I don't need an unelected German(s) as head of state.

No cap in hand to Brussels - I don't need an unelected German as unofficial head of state and I want a trade agreement only, no CAP or CFP, 1.5bn a year charge for membership. Euro or uncontrolled migration. If we can't get a trade agreement then fine. We have a large deficit with them, their loss.

Currency - we print our own currency via our own central bank, this is a result of dropping legacy debt.

These four points are met I vote for independence.

[RedRob72]

But we're not one country though, never have been and never will. We are a political union of four separate countries, or three and an occupied territory.

That's why the EU referendum should require the consent of all four, but the Scottish referendum didn't require the consent of all 32 council areas.

just sneaked that line in again eh, 'an occupied territory' how utterly predictable, a raging republican nationalist, who hates any of his fellow British countrymen who don't have the same chip on their shoulder !!! What a f*ckin yawn, Zzzzzz, the night's in your local bar must fly by eh !? you crack on mate, you're a fantastic poster boy for the SNP.

[FuzzyAffro]

just sneaked that line in again eh, 'an occupied territory' how utterly predictable, a raging republican nationalist, who hates any of his fellow British countrymen who don't have the same chip on their shoulder !!! What a f*ckin yawn, Zzzzzz, the night's in your local bar must fly by eh !? you crack on mate, you're a fantastic poster boy for the SNP.

Any proof yet?

Northern Ireland is an occupied territory, that's just a fact.