We need to talk about Irish Independence

[Antiochas III]

Well, plenty of them do. The twats in the sun, mail, tories (you know, our fucking government) and even some grauniad ponces do. I find it sad that so many find it funny and unimportant.

And many Irish hate the British, for " 700 years occupation". While forarsgetting they're just as British, being from the British Isles et al, and the fact Britian as a state has only exsisted for a little over 300 years.

Lets not forget also thas at the Irish also invited the English over, on at least 3 occasions. Refused to help the Scots kick out the English, refused to give France safe haven and, the only time they island of Ireland was ever united was under English/British rule.

[THE KING]

Utter pish

Utter PHish

[Half Rice Half Chips]

And many Irish hate the British, for " 700 years occupation". While forarsgetting they're just as British, being from the British Isles et al, and the fact Britian as a state has only exsisted for a little over 300 years.

Lets not forget also thas at the Irish also invited the English over, on at least 3 occasions. Refused to help the Scots kick out the English, refused to give France safe haven and, the only time they island of Ireland was ever united was under English/British rule.

As a (presumably) Scotsman, why are you so passionately against the idea of an independent, united Ireland? What possible difference would it make to your life? What's your motivation?

[Savage Henry]

Utter pish

Very, very generous.

[Antiochas III]

As a (presumably) Scotsman, why are you so passionately against the idea of an independent, united Ireland? What possible difference would it make to your life? What's your motivation?

I'm neither here nor there about it. Ireland's claim though boils down to "being part of the same land mass as itself".

Not to mention the fact it's not wanted by those in power on either side of the border.

[Doakes]

Maybe the republic should annex the north. Much like Russia did to Crimea..

[Half Rice Half Chips]

I'm neither here nor there about it. Ireland's claim though boils down to "being part of the same land mass as itself"

If the concept of a united Ireland never existed, why was there a High King of Ireland? And why did provincial Kings and clans fight wars with each other for the title of High King of Ireland? This new far right British nationalist argument of "Ireland never existed" is a sinister form of nationhood-denial that we see in, for example, Israel's denial of Palestinian nationhood.

In my experience, Scotsmen who are opposed to unified Irish independence have a scarcely-concealed ulterior motive.

[Antiochas III]

High Kings. You mean in the same way the Nordic Peoples, the Germanic Peoples, The Gauls, the Celtiberians, The Britons, What about Thrace? Illyria?

The Irish High Kings mostly took the the name for the island they sat on (as the King was to marry the land), but there power barely reached beyond their own borders. The High Kings were made even more of a joke when the Norman's began their conquest in 1171 (a conquest that only happened at the behest of the Catholic Church)

And in my experience, those who who refuse to face facts that Irish Republican claims to the failed state(one which doesn't actually come from Dublin) is based on the same reason England claimed Scotland, Germany claimed Austria, Russia claims well anything it wants have an ulterior motive.

[Half Rice Half Chips]

The Irish High Kings mostly took the the name for the island they sat on

Er, yeah, "Ireland".

[LongTimeLurker]

Dress it up how you want, a coherent and unitary All-Ireland Gaelic state or kingdom never existed. Modern nationalisms only really date from about the French revolution onwards, so that was in no way fatal to the concept of a 32 county state. The key problem on that was that the founding myths around which the modern sense of nationhood coalesced left out about a quarter of the people living on the island.

[forever_blue]

If the concept of a united Ireland never existed, why was there a High King of Ireland? And why did provincial Kings and clans fight wars with each other for the title of High King of Ireland? This new far right British nationalist argument of "Ireland never existed" is a sinister form of nationhood-denial that we see in, for example, Israel's denial of Palestinian nationhood.

In my experience, Scotsmen who are opposed to unified Irish independence have a scarcely-concealed ulterior motive.

Do you just blame the far right for everything these days ?

[Half Rice Half Chips]

Dress it up how you want, a coherent and unitary All-Ireland Gaelic state or kingdom never existed. Modern nationalisms only really date from about the French revolution onwards, so that was in no way fatal to the concept of a 32 county state. The key problem on that was that the founding myths around which the modern sense of nationhood coalesced left out about a quarter of the people living on the island.

Probably the best chance for a genuinely united Ireland were the United Irishmen but after the failed 1798 rebellion, northern Presbyterians moved away from the United Irishmen and towards the sectarian Orange Order, and Irish nationalism became almost exclusively entwined with Gaelic Catholicism. Shame really. It's interesting to consider that the ancestors of many, possibly most, of today's Loyalist community in Belfast would almost certainly have been United Irishmen.

[mjw]

PUL incoming!

[Arsenal till I die]

And many Irish hate the British, for " 700 years occupation". While forarsgetting they're just as British, being from the British Isles et al, and the fact Britian as a state has only exsisted for a little over 300 years.

Lets not forget also thas at the Irish also invited the English over, on at least 3 occasions. Refused to help the Scots kick out the English, refused to give France safe haven and, the only time they island of Ireland was ever united was under English/British rule.

That's a good point so it deserves a reply. I would say most of us respect other countries sovereignty and just want to live in peace. We celebrate our victory in world war 2 (arguably the closest England albeit not the rest of the UK has come to a war of liberation) and I would hazard a guess that people in the south are free to pay tribute to that without being ridiculed for it by their own mainstream media. I would certainly hazard a guess that if someone ran for office in the south, they wouldn't be vilified in their own MSM for it?

[Glenconner]

If the SNP had existed in 1918 and had won a landslide victory it would have been interesting.

From the "if your granny had haws maws" school of history.

[Glenconner]

Dress it up how you want, a coherent and unitary All-Ireland Gaelic state or kingdom never existed. Modern nationalisms only really date from about the French revolution onwards, so that was in no way fatal to the concept of a 32 county state. The key problem on that was that the founding myths around which the modern sense of nationhood coalesced left out about a quarter of the people living on the island.

Could you repeat that in English?

[LongTimeLurker]

Naw, which means no in the language of the Ulster Scots.

[Glenconner]

Naw, which means no in the language of the Ulster Scots.

Heard the Scots Language society are big in the SNP scene.

Must be funny when they meet up with their cousins across the water.

According to the SL website that happens quite a lot.

Fit like.

[Dr Koop]

Those are two scary-lookin' people, but in a friendly way.

[Dr Koop]

I had to ask what that was a few weeks back. Everyone had been shouting it forever and I did not have a clue what they were on about.

Which sums up Norn Ireland....

Mr Bunfield (or whatever) offered Mr Ulsterman a canape. He legitimately requested cheddar cheese and pineapple on a stick. His hostess offered toffee ar la.

At least, that's what I heard.