Clubs getting into trouble, 'resting' for a season or closing

[Man on a bike]

Anyone who has followed junior football will see clubs getting into trouble, and in many cases closing down totally.

 

There is another thread on here about Irvine Meadow in particular and their current woes. The idea is to have a wider discussion about why clubs get in trouble. Please, this is not for one upmanship, nor accusations against your local rivals. More to do with what are the issues and how can clubs be helped at the earliest possible stages.

 

There are many early signs I have encountered, sometimes taking many years to come to fruition, but each of these signs will ensure it will end in tears.

 

1. Sugar daddies
Big sponsors who lob money at the club, which they lobbed at players as quickly as it came in. Another club signing players on big bucks and providing company cars, only to close down totally within 2/3 years. Saving for a rainy day? Of course we don't have rainy days in Scotland, or do we?

 

2. Club leadership

Where there is a Secretary/President/Chairman in charge with their wife/bidie in/partner in charge of the finances you know where they are going. Penniless and downwards.

 

3. Social Club

Nice thing about social clubs is that people pay cash in advance of getting their pints. The dangerous thing about social clubs is that being a cash business they are prone to all sorts of fiddles or downright theft. 

If tied to a brewery, every time the club needs cash they get another loan from the brewery. This increases their debt and reduces their margin on bar sales. Another downward spiral.

 

4. Committee members in post for 20 years

Some committees have the same people in charge year after year. They don't want anyone else involved. The club declines but they can never do anything different. As the world changes, as sport and communities change the club doesn't. Only guaranteed conclusion is death. For those committee members and the club.

 

5. Lack of support for the club or desire to increase their support

Many clubs are totally against speaking to anyone other then themselves. No way do they want a web site. They think Pie & Bovril should be closed down. In one conversation I had with a committee member suggesting they should publish fixture dates ahead of games. "The proper supporters know when we are playing. Not interested in blow ins".

 

6. Depending on local Council and Councillors 

This could well be a 50 page report on manipulation, corruption, incompetence and personal politicking that always fails the club at the end.

 

This is by no means a total or comprehensive list. But what are the signs you have seen? 

 

And hopefully once we know the signs to look out for, we can then press the SJFA to put something in place that will provide help and guidance to clubs when they first encounter the problems. 

 

No need to mention clubs by name, it is the common failings we want to spell out, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mikedafc]

A lot of problems in Ayrshire have come from not having enough local people being interested in helping out, being on committees leading to problems when those existing committee members leave/retire in replacing them. Craigmark and Lugar in particularly have had problems in this regard in recent times.

[Auld Heid]

Anyone who has followed junior football will see clubs getting into trouble, and in many cases closing down totally.

 

There is another thread on here about Irvine Meadow in particular and their current woes. The idea is to have a wider discussion about why clubs get in trouble. Please, this is not for one upmanship, nor accusations against your local rivals. More to do with what are the issues and how can clubs be helped at the earliest possible stages.

 

There are many early signs I have encountered, sometimes taking many years to come to fruition, but each of these signs will ensure it will end in tears.

 

1. Sugar daddies

Big sponsors who lob money at the club, which they lobbed at players as quickly as it came in. Another club signing players on big bucks and providing company cars, only to close down totally within 2/3 years. Saving for a rainy day? Of course we don't have rainy days in Scotland, or do we?  One man's whim can only lead to trouble - clubs however never learn and continue to take the easy money in hope of glory.  A very short-sighted approach.

 

2. Club leadership

Where there is a Secretary/President/Chairman in charge with their wife/bidie in/partner in charge of the finances you know where they are going. Penniless and downwards.   Not if you have the right people in charge - but agree there needs to be a wider transparency especially in such circumstances

 

3. Social Club

Nice thing about social clubs is that people pay cash in advance of getting their pints. The dangerous thing about social clubs is that being a cash business they are prone to all sorts of fiddles or downright theft. 

If tied to a brewery, every time the club needs cash they get another loan from the brewery. This increases their debt and reduces their margin on bar sales. Another downward spiral.  Agree - any arguments and drink suddenly goes before football.  Social clubs firstly need to be run as viable businesses with football benefitting when/where finances allow.  Linlithgow when they set up their social club managed to get a constitution through where the Football Club pull the strings and thus ensuring they could control that the benefit of the Social Club would always be for the football.  The Social Club members have no say unless they are also football members - which they won't be unless approved by the Football Club committee

 

4. Committee members in post for 20 years

Some committees have the same people in charge year after year. They don't want anyone else involved. The club declines but they can never do anything different. As the world changes, as sport and communities change the club doesn't. Only guaranteed conclusion is death. For those committee members and the club.  Agree - however continuity can work both ways - the downside as people get older their views can become entrenched and not always with a view to the future.

 

5. Lack of support for the club or desire to increase their support

Many clubs are totally against speaking to anyone other then themselves. No way do they want a web site. They think Pie & Bovril should be closed down. In one conversation I had with a committee member suggesting they should publish fixture dates ahead of games. "The proper supporters know when we are playing. Not interested in blow ins". Agree totally such narrow views split our club down the middle and put the club back years on many fronts.  Many friendships have ended also.  People wanted evolution not revolution.  Free money and assistance was viewed with distrust

 

6. Depending on local Council and Councillors 

This could well be a 50 page report on manipulation, corruption, incompetence and personal politicking that always fails the club at the end.  

 

This is by no means a total or comprehensive list. But what are the signs you have seen? 

 

And hopefully once we know the signs to look out for, we can then press the SJFA to put something in place that will provide help and guidance to clubs when they first encounter the problems. 

 

No need to mention clubs by name, it is the common failings we want to spell out, 

[ex-german exile]

Anyone who has followed junior football will see clubs getting into trouble, and in many cases closing down totally.

There is another thread on here about Irvine Meadow in particular and their current woes. The idea is to have a wider discussion about why clubs get in trouble. Please, this is not for one upmanship, nor accusations against your local rivals. More to do with what are the issues and how can clubs be helped at the earliest possible stages.

There are many early signs I have encountered, sometimes taking many years to come to fruition, but each of these signs will ensure it will end in tears.

1. Sugar daddies

Big sponsors who lob money at the club, which they lobbed at players as quickly as it came in. Another club signing players on big bucks and providing company cars, only to close down totally within 2/3 years. Saving for a rainy day? Of course we don't have rainy days in Scotland, or do we?

2. Club leadership

Where there is a Secretary/President/Chairman in charge with their wife/bidie in/partner in charge of the finances you know where they are going. Penniless and downwards.

3. Social Club

Nice thing about social clubs is that people pay cash in advance of getting their pints. The dangerous thing about social clubs is that being a cash business they are prone to all sorts of fiddles or downright theft.

If tied to a brewery, every time the club needs cash they get another loan from the brewery. This increases their debt and reduces their margin on bar sales. Another downward spiral.

4. Committee members in post for 20 years

Some committees have the same people in charge year after year. They don't want anyone else involved. The club declines but they can never do anything different. As the world changes, as sport and communities change the club doesn't. Only guaranteed conclusion is death. For those committee members and the club.

5. Lack of support for the club or desire to increase their support

Many clubs are totally against speaking to anyone other then themselves. No way do they want a web site. They think Pie & Bovril should be closed down. In one conversation I had with a committee member suggesting they should publish fixture dates ahead of games. "The proper supporters know when we are playing. Not interested in blow ins".

6. Depending on local Council and Councillors

This could well be a 50 page report on manipulation, corruption, incompetence and personal politicking that always fails the club at the end.

This is by no means a total or comprehensive list. But what are the signs you have seen?

And hopefully once we know the signs to look out for, we can then press the SJFA to put something in place that will provide help and guidance to clubs when they first encounter the problems.

No need to mention clubs by name, it is the common failings we want to spell out,

So what you're saying is that any club with a sugar daddy / big sponsor, chairman with a supportive wife, social club, long standing committee members or small support is doomed (sorry don't understand point 6).

In other words, nearly every junior club. What a load of pointless, meaningless, irrelevant pash!!!!

[ex-german exile]

^^^My Team: Hurlford Utd

And you point is caller?

[Dindeleux]

'Hurlford fan in huff at criticism of sugar-daddy-run-clubs'

Comes as a surprise to absolutely nobody.

From a fan of the club formerly known as Rangers as well.

You couldn't make it up.

Well to be fair you could make it up as you are a known liar.

[Dindeleux]

I post on the junior forum on a semi regular basis so you probably shouldn't get too excited there.

Trunks are for beasts by the way.

[Man on a bike]

So what you're saying is that any club with a sugar daddy / big sponsor, chairman with a supportive wife, social club, long standing committee members or small support is doomed (sorry don't understand point 6).

In other words, nearly every junior club. What a load of pointless, meaningless, irrelevant pash!!!!

 

No certainties in this world, but there are many examples of clubs who do well as long as someone is throwing money at them. Problem is the guy with the money does not keep doing this forever and many become more demanding or disenchanted.

 

Clubs can plan for the day the moneyman walks out, but unfortunately few can plan ahead further than next week.  

 

I can easily refer to at least a dozen clubs that have had their day of unsustainably funded glory only to plummet down the ranks when left on their own. 

 

When you say my post is pointless and irrelevant I can only assume you are confident for the future of your club while the moneybags man is there, and equally confident for the future of the club after he has gone? You may want to explain how you see that working?

[ex-german exile]

No certainties in this world, but there are many examples of clubs who do well as long as someone is throwing money at them. Problem is the guy with the money does not keep doing this forever and many become more demanding or disenchanted.

Clubs can plan for the day the moneyman walks out, but unfortunately few can plan ahead further than next week.

I can easily refer to at least a dozen clubs that have had their day of unsustainably funded glory only to plummet down the ranks when left on their own.

When you say my post is pointless and irrelevant I can only assume you are confident for the future of your club while the moneybags man is there, and equally confident for the future of the club after he has gone? You may want to explain how you see that working?

/

As you say no certainties. I have no idea what the future hills for my club when the current sponsors no longer invest, but that wasn't my point.

Your six point list for failure is so diverse and General that it covers almost every club.

Are you really suggesting that all clubs with a social club have a potential problem? Or that committee men or women that spend half their adult life at the same club are a danger?

Utter nonsense.

The facts are simple. If you serially spend more than your income regardless of its source then you will end up in debt. That's why clubs get into trouble. The biggest problem in this seems to be putting your club in the hands of a money man that doesn't actually invest any money, but runs up debt behind the facade of investing.

[Man on a bike]

As you say no certainties. I have no idea what the future hills for my club when the current sponsors no longer invest, but that wasn't my point.

 

Might not be YOUR point, but that is exactly MY point.

Your six point list for failure is so diverse and General that it covers almost every club.

 

Yes it covers many. If you want them all covered I can add more. And yes, every club is at risk, we just don't know where the risks might come from. 

Are you really suggesting that all clubs with a social club have a potential problem?

Of course they do. Cash is tempting and easy to snaffle.  

 

Or that committee men or women that spend half their adult life at the same club are a danger?

Problem with a club being run by a few people who don't give up any of their power is what happens after they leave.

Utter nonsense.
You could be right, and happy for you to quote examples. 

The facts are simple. If you serially spend more than your income regardless of its source then you will end up in debt. That's why clubs get into trouble.

Nothing new there

Micawber 

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

Not every club has people on the committee who understand how to manage money. And as for an annual budget? 

 

The biggest problem in this seems to be putting your club in the hands of a money man that doesn't actually invest any money, but runs up debt behind the facade of investing. 

Oh yes and I know a few of those too. Thanks for reminding me. My 6 can now become 7.

And 'putting your club in the hands of a money man (either one who has money or doesn't)' makes it 8. 

 

Just as a point of interest, has your club 'put itself in the hands of a money man?' Where the committee members are too scared to challenge him or say anything in case he runs away.