Junior football, what is the future?

[FairWeatherFan]

43 minutes ago, Robert James said:

Nearly everyone seems to accept that the quality of the Lowland has grown year on year, and a strengthened EoS will add to its quality. The HFL has also been improved by the 5 ex-Junior clubs which have joined its ranks - just look at the successes of 4 HFL clubs in this season's Scottish Cup. 

However, if the SFA is serious about wanting the pyramid to flourish, it needs to act in conjunction with the SPFL, and grant AUTOMATIC promotion and relegation between tiers 4 and 5. English football granted automatic entry to the EFL  from the 'conference' in 1986/87 (with 1 team being automatically relegated, later increased to 2 clubs each season).  

In the not too distant future, SPFL Division 2 should be regionalised, given the part-time nature of its clubs, and ever escalating travel costs. However this is NOTthe time to do this, as change will be by EVOLUTION, carefully thought through, and supported (as far as possible) by both league and non-league clubs.

It is interesting to note that the first 6 clubs who were relegated out of the EFL, were all subsequently promoted back, albeit not usually in their first season in the 'conference'. These were in the order of relegation, Lincoln, Newport, Darlington*, Colchester, Hereford* & Doncaster. (*Two of these were later relegated a second time. The other 4 are still in the EFL).  During the period since automatic promotion and relegation, the English pyramid has gone from strength to strength, and EFL Division 2 is very competitive, having become much more vibrant as a consequence of the 'new blood' in its ranks.

If the nettle is fully grasped, it will be the same for Scottish football.

 

All of this is sound and true. I still understand why Brora & Buckie "throw" the playoffs and Auchinleck + others aren't interested in the pyramid. They're to the Scottish Pyramid what the Northern League were to England's or even Queen's Park avoiding the formation of the SFL until they had to admit defeat.

[Robert James]

52 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

All of this is sound and true. I still understand why Brora & Buckie "throw" the playoffs and Auchinleck + others aren't interested in the pyramid. They're to the Scottish Pyramid what the Northern League were to England's or even Queen's Park avoiding the formation of the SFL until they had to admit defeat.

Yes, and Auchinleck and other junior clubs don't have to join the pyramid, as there will be a role for those who don't wish to participate. The SJFA needs to recognise that it isn't an option of "all in, or all out." The clubs will decide what they do next.

Regarding Brora and Buckie, we've all heard the (unconfirmed) rumours, but they did, like other HFL clubs, vote to join the pyramid in the first place

.......and none of the ex-North Juniors (Cove, Inverurie, Formartine, Turriff & Strathspey) have subsequently decided to resign from the HFL, and return to the North Super League. Neither for that matter, have the 3  northern clubs, Wick Academy, Fort William or Brora Rangers, resigned to (re)join the NCL.   

[Ginaro]

2 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Have a swatch at this, clearly written by someone who has no understanding of why this is happening

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/junior-football-scotland-ruin-senior-leagues?CMP=share_btn_tw

Makes it sound like without the Auchinleck v Cumnock games it would be armageddon in the Juniors - doubt he was writing about the loss of this league fixture in season 2015-16 when the teams were in different divisions.

[LongTimeLurker]

2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

In case anyone has forgotten. Spiers is a complete cùnt.

McKenna's a nasty piece of work as well. What he doesn't seem to grasp with the paranoid bit at the end is that the survey results were a break with tradition not a reinforcement of it. 

[1320Lichtie]

I am biased, I admit that. After 30 odd years of watching, then working in SFL football, I just can't bear the thought of having to undergo the experience of sitting in a flat pack multi thousand capacity stadium, being treated with contempt and any number of other negatives.

Some of the experiences can be utter shite I’ll give you that, your EF/Dumbarton/Airdrie/Clyde. But there’s still plenty of cracking venues in Scottish lower league football.

[Truthteller]

Looks like it could be back to regional leagues for next season or the season after if 9 or 10 teams leave for the EOS.

2 Lothian divisions, 1 Fife division and 2 Tayside divisions.

[Burnie_man]

Looks like it could be back to regional leagues for next season or the season after if 9 or 10 teams leave for the EOS.
2 Lothian divisions, 1 Fife division and 2 Tayside divisions.

The dinosaurs will be beside themselves with excitement, 1950's revisited [emoji23]

[Truthteller]

Or 14 team superleague, 14 team premier and  north and south divisions, who knows.

I'm sure there will be someone with a cunning plan ! hopefully 

[John S]

Any news on what teams have actually applied for the EofS League?

[John S]

On ‎31‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:01, debian said:

Floodlights are not required at Entry level.

What level of lighting is planned for Newtown Park?

[gaz5]

Standard for new build community facilities these days is usually 252 lux, which satisfies the recommendation. But its only a recommendation, not a requirement, like it is to have 300 lux for Bronze. You wouldn't not get the license for only having 100 lux say, as floodlights are not a requirement at all for Entry level (currently).

[boulderdomb]

Are assistant referee's mandatory at every EoS/SSFL/LL/HL game or do they only become mandatory as of league 2?

 

Would another benefit of joining the pyramid be every game you get ARs?

[debian]

30 minutes ago, John S said:

What level of lighting is planned for Newtown Park?

I have no idea?  Would have thoughts the lights they have were suitable enough

[Jute]

18 minutes ago, boulderdomb said:

Are assistant referee's mandatory at every EoS/SSFL/LL/HL game or do they only become mandatory as of league 2?

 

Would another benefit of joining the pyramid be every game you get ARs?

Been to some EoS games where no assistants but don't think I have seen a Lowland League or Highland league game without them.

[Glenconner]

9 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

SPFL2 ranges between £12-£14, Clyde charge £13.   I think one LL team charge £8, others £7, £6, £5.  I'd happily pay that to watch my team at a higher level.

Edinburgh City have went from attendances of 50 in the LL charging a fiver, upto an average of around 300 in League Two charging £12.  Admission price doesn't appear to put people off.

Edinburgh City, catchment area half a million.

Auchinleck Talbot with a population of less than 5000 with Cumnock and Glenafton beside them. I doubt Talbot's crowds will jump six times with double the entry money. Certainly not to watch Cowdenbeath in a league game at £13 a pop and £8 each for the kids. I don't really buy into the "just get rid of the oldies and a new super duper all spending new crowd will turn up" scenario. Not in the old ex mining villages scattered across the Central Belt they won't.

[HTG]

11 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Edinburgh City, catchment area half a million.

Auchinleck Talbot with a population of less than 5000 with Cumnock and Glenafton beside them. I doubt Talbot's crowds will jump six times with double the entry money. Certainly not to watch Cowdenbeath in a league game at £13 a pop and £8 each for the kids. I don't really buy into the "just get rid of the oldies and a new super duper all spending new crowd will turn up" scenario. Not in the old ex mining villages scattered across the Central Belt they won't.

If that's the case  stay where you are and charge 6 quid. It's not in itself a reason not to have a pyramid where others with different views or options can go up and test the water.

[Burnie_man]

10 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Edinburgh City, catchment area half a million.

Auchinleck Talbot with a population of less than 5000 with Cumnock and Glenafton beside them. I doubt Talbot's crowds will jump six times with double the entry money. Certainly not to watch Cowdenbeath in a league game at £13 a pop and £8 each for the kids. I don't really buy into the "just get rid of the oldies and a new super duper all spending new crowd will turn up" scenario. Not in the old ex mining villages scattered across the Central Belt they won't.

The evidence suggests that people want to watch league football, otherwise if it was all about price Junior grounds would be bursting at the seams. They're largely empty.

So aye, if someone like Talbot or Linithgow or Pollok get into the SPFL, I'm willing to bet their crowds will increase and not decrease, regardless of cost.

[Glenconner]

9 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The evidence suggests that people want to watch league football, otherwise if it was all about price Junior grounds would be bursting at the seams. They're largely empty.

So aye, if someone like Talbot or Linithgow or Pollok get into the SPFL, I'm willing to bet their crowds will increase and not decrease, regardless of cost.

Most grounds are empty outside of a handful.

[Glenconner]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

The evidence suggests that people want to watch league football, otherwise if it was all about price Junior grounds would be bursting at the seams. They're largely empty.

So aye, if someone like Talbot or Linithgow or Pollok get into the SPFL, I'm willing to bet their crowds will increase and not decrease, regardless of cost.

 

13 minutes ago, HTG said:

If that's the case  stay where you are and charge 6 quid. It's not in itself a reason not to have a pyramid where others with different views or options can go up and test the water.

Doubt most Junior teams will be playing in the SFL1 or 2 anytime soon even with a so called pyramid.

[Jack Burton]

Every team that has joined the SPFL or whatever it was called at the time has seen an increase in attendances.

The majority of SPFL lower league clubs don't charge for kids either.

There is plenty of junior clubs that will bring a great deal to the pyramid. At the same time if the likes of Talbot don't want promoted then that option has to be on offer too.

Its just a pity that it's taken so long to get to this point as the LL could have been even stronger than it is just now with the inclusion of the bigger junior teams.