The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Sure. But I thought you'd prefer facts. Apologies if I'm wrong. I love facts. The facts show that the "War on Drugs" is a failure and you're an advocate of waging an even bigger war on drugs, despite no evidence that this actually works. I can point you towards Portugal and the decriminalisation studies they've done if you'd like facts on a policy that does actually work, if you'd like? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boostin' Kev Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Ironically enough (and assuming he's actually being serious), Tibbermoresaint is airing views like a person currently suffering from addiction or is about to quite soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: I love facts. The facts show that the "War on Drugs" is a failure and you're an advocate of waging an even bigger war on drugs, despite no evidence that this actually works. I can point you towards Portugal and the decriminalisation studies they've done if you'd like facts on a policy that does actually work, if you'd like? I love facts too. Here are some facts for you. Being a junkie is a choice. Individuals are responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Junkies are responsible for a lot of crime. To get rid of that crime we need to get rid of junkies. You don't get rid of junkies by decriminalising drugs. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Individuals are responsible for their own actions and the consequences of those actions. Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you’ve posted, do you believe that people’s actions take place in a vacuum, or do you think that people’s actions are shaped and informed by the circumstances which they find themselves in and life experiences which they’ve had? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: You don't get rid of junkies by decriminalising drugs. Eh, yes you do. Honestly, go and read some info on it. 1 minute ago, throbber said: I’m all for new ways of looking at addiction and drug issues and I agree that it should be viewed as a mental health problem but the second a junkie commits a crime against me I don’t give a f**k about their mental health and would want to see them punished to the full extent of the law. Imagined being mugged at knife point by a drug addict and going home thinking “oh that poor soul having to do something like that to feed their addiction” it wouldn’t happen and has never happened to anyone who has ever been on the receiving end of a junkies crime so Tibbermoresaint does have a point despite clearly being a c**t. He would have a point if anyone at all, at any point in this thread, said that junkies should be absolved of the crimes they commit. If they commit crimes then they deserve punishment for it - addiction does not excuse that, but if they have an addiction they deserve support to get out of that addiction as well. I have no idea why people are struggling with the difference there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Leaving aside the rest of the stuff you’ve posted, do you believe that people’s actions take place in a vacuum, or do you think that people’s actions are shaped and informed by the circumstances which they find themselves in and life experiences which they’ve had? I believe people are individuals who have responsibility for their own actions and have the ability to differentiate right from wrong. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Eh, yes you do. Honestly, go and read some info on it. He would have a point if anyone at all, at any point in this thread, said that junkies should be absolved of the crimes they commit. If they commit crimes then they deserve punishment for it - addiction does not excuse that, but if they have an addiction they deserve support to get out of that addiction as well. I have no idea why people are struggling with the difference there. Does Portugal have junkies? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 I believe people are individuals who have responsibility for their own actions and have the ability to differentiate right from wrong. That’s not what I asked.Do you think that people’s actions are, to at least some extent, shaped by the society they find themselves in and their experiences of it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said: That’s not what I asked. Do you think that people’s actions are, to at least some extent, shaped by the society they find themselves in and their experiences of it? I think these would form part of a thought-process but I don't see it should shape their actions. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, Tibbermoresaint said: Does Portugal have junkies? A lot less than they used to have. There are also less young people getting involved in drugs and less people dying of HIV. It's also allowed the police to spend time chasing down the actual traffickers of drugs rather than the user on the street, which means less people in jail and the costs associated with that reduced. They now have the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the EU. Heroin use in teenagers dropped from 2.5% to 1.8%. They also have comprehensive drug treatment programme which gets folk back into "normal" life. Stick dem facts in your syringe and inject it right into your brain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Moonster said: A lot less than they used to have. There are also less young people getting involved in drugs and less people dying of HIV. It's also allowed the police to spend time chasing down the actual traffickers of drugs rather than the user on the street, which means less people in jail and the costs associated with that reduced. They now have the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the EU. Heroin use in teenagers dropped from 2.5% to 1.8%. They also have comprehensive drug treatment programme which gets folk back into "normal" life. Stick dem facts in your syringe and inject it right into your brain. So still junkies and still crimes perpetrated by junkies. You'll forgive me if I don't regard heroin use in teenagers of 1.8% as something to be proud of. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sadly no longer with us but interesting to read Jack Bruce's thoughts and comments on drug addiction. HE’s survived heroin addiction, cancer and a liver transplant – but Scots rock legend Jack Bruce has admitted he didn’t want to live beyond 30. And the world famous rocker admits he’s saddened by the “tragedy” of the generations in his homeland ravaged by the drug that nearly ruined his life. The Glasgow-born star has lived a life of rock excess during his career as the bass player and singer in Cream, touring the world and selling tens of millions of records with Eric Clapton and Ginger Baker. But at 68, the man regarded by some as the best bass player in modern history can’t believe he’s still here, having lived nearly40 years longer than he thoughthe would. Jack fought addictions and grappled with a massive long-term heroin problem, developing cancer of the liver in 2003. He was given a transplant, which his body initially rejected, leaving him gravely ill. But he made a full recovery, going on to reform Cream in 2005 and tour the world with other projects. Returning to Glasgow this week to play a solo show and a tribute to Gerry Rafferty at Celtic Connections, the former user spoke of his sadness to see how the city he knew as a boy is still struggling with a major heroin problem, unable to do what he did – beat it. He said: “It’s a total tragedy. “The 70s were a particularly bad time in Glasgow for heroin, it was a tragedy then, too. “But you can see how a generation has been destroyed by drugs and it’s such a huge problem. I’d love to do something about it – anything at all. “But it’s hard for me to talk about it. I’m nearly 70 and I survived all that and came out the other end. “I’m lucky and, because of that, it’s hard for me to say much to some young guy hooked on heroin. But it really is terrible. “The only way to stop using is to actually just stop. Only you can do it. You can go to a thousand clinics, but you have to want to do it. “I went to the clinics, I wasn’t proud, but I’m proof it can be done.” The twice married father-of-five (one of his sons, Jo, died of an asthma attack in 1997) got hooked on the class A drug while living the rock and roll lifestyle in the 60s and 70s, when Cream were one of the biggest bands in the world. It has been described variously by former musical collaborators as one of the biggest, most consuming addictions in rock ‘n’ roll. Surviving an era strewn with casualties of the industry’s excesses could be considered an achievement. But Jack admits he’s not proud to be called a “former addict”. “Everyone who has done it regrets it,” he said. “If you said you didn’t regret the wasted years and the money you denied yourself through addiction, then you’d be a fool. “Of course you regret it. If I had the chance to do it all again, I wouldn’t do it like that. “But that’s the way it turned out and you have to live with the hand you’ve been dealt and get on with it. “The only piece of advice I’m comfortable with on that front is, ‘Don’t ever try drugs because if you try it, you’ll like it’. “And if you get in trouble with addiction, you have to get as much help as you can and get out of it.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Moonster said: A lot less than they used to have. There are also less young people getting involved in drugs and less people dying of HIV. It's also allowed the police to spend time chasing down the actual traffickers of drugs rather than the user on the street, which means less people in jail and the costs associated with that reduced. They now have the lowest rate of lifetime marijuana use in people over 15 in the EU. Heroin use in teenagers dropped from 2.5% to 1.8%. They also have comprehensive drug treatment programme which gets folk back into "normal" life. Stick dem facts in your syringe and inject it right into your brain. Perhaps Singapore has the correct approach. https://beta-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/opinions/singapore-is-winning-the-war-on-drugs-heres-how/2018/03/11/b8c25278-22e9-11e8-946c-9420060cb7bd_story.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQA#aoh=15633754454976&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From %1%24s -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: So still junkies and still crimes perpetrated by junkies. You'll forgive me if I don't regard heroin use in teenagers of 1.8% as something to be proud of. Their policy is reducing crime and drug use. Our policy is accelerating crime and drug use to all time highs. If you aren't happy with a reduction in kids using heroin then you're a very weird guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, The Moonster said: Their policy is reducing crime and drug use. Our policy is accelerating crime and drug use to all time highs. If you aren't happy with a reduction in kids using heroin then you're a very weird guy. Their policy is tolerating junkies. Ours shouldn't be. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Perhaps Singapore has the correct approach. https://beta-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/opinions/singapore-is-winning-the-war-on-drugs-heres-how/2018/03/11/b8c25278-22e9-11e8-946c-9420060cb7bd_story.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&outputType=amp&usqp=mq331AQA#aoh=15633754454976&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From %1%24s Oh they've won the war on drugs! I assume Singapore don't have any drug users or junkies then. Oh wait... https://www.thecabinsingapore.com.sg/blog/despite-tough-penalties-drug-abuse-in-singapore-is-still-on-the-increase/ Drug abuse increasing in Singapore? Surely not? Thought the war was won? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Their policy is tolerating junkies. Ours shouldn't be. Ours is a massive failure. Do you dispute that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Oh they've won the war on drugs! I assume Singapore don't have any drug users or junkies then. Oh wait... https://www.thecabinsingapore.com.sg/blog/despite-tough-penalties-drug-abuse-in-singapore-is-still-on-the-increase/ Drug abuse increasing in Singapore? Surely not? Thought the war was won? Who claimed the war was won? 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Ours is a massive failure. Do you dispute that? No. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Who claimed the war was won? No Sigh. Okay, the war isn't won, but they claim to be winning it when drug use is on the rise. Doesn't sound like winning to me. You're happy to continue with our policy though, even though you acknowledge it's failing? 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I'll ask again. Where did I explicitly say that drug users deserve no sympathy? I just quoted the post for you, if that's not what you meant to say then I'm all ears as to what you did mean. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Just now, The Moonster said: Sigh. Okay, the war isn't won, but they claim to be winning it when drug use is on the rise. Doesn't sound like winning to me. You're happy to continue with our policy though, even though you acknowledge it's failing? Singapore's drugs-related crime is far less than ours. That sounds like winning to me. No, I'm not happy to carry on with our policy as it isn't working. Would you be happy to adopt Singapore's? If not why not? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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