Drug deaths in Scotland hit record high

[Tibbermoresaint]

14 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

Being a nice member of society is indeed a choice. As is spending hours trolling P&B I guess.

Over 4000 posts in 9 months. Looks like you've made your choice. Or maybe you haven't. Could it be society? Or poverty? Or inherent destructive impulses? Who can say?

[Bairnardo]

Over 4000 posts in 9 months. Looks like you've made your choice. Or maybe you haven't. Could it be society? Or poverty? Or inherent destructive impulses? Who can say?

Would you accept that mental illness can cause people to do things they wouldnt have done when they were well?

[Tibbermoresaint]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

6 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Over 4000 posts in 9 months. Looks like you've made your choice. Or maybe you haven't. Could it be society? Or poverty? Or inherent destructive impulses? Who can say?

Would you accept that mental illness can cause people to do things they wouldnt have done when they were well?

Of course. Would you accept that mental illness doesn't absolve people of their responsibilities to the rest of society?

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Do you believe that all humans are of equal value?

I beleive that all humans deserve equal opportunity. "Value" is a subjective concept.

[Sergeant Wilson]

6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Childhood sexual abuse does not cause people to go out and commit a large number of crimes in a very short time frame.

Where on earth are you getting this nonsense from?

Not every victim does, but lots do. Those who don't present with different symptoms.

I get it from years of experience.

[Tibbermoresaint]

2 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

I beleive that all humans deserve equal opportunity. "Value" is a subjective concept.

What about those who squander that opportunity?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Interestingly i read a study(which I’ll link too if I remember where the f**k I read it) that had drug use at similar levels across all spectrums of society across drug types as well.

What the big difference was was addiction rates. The theory being it poverty didn’t lead to drug use, but it did lead to drug users becoming addicted.

Opiate abuse is seen in upper classes yes, but quite often it appears to be use of non-heroin opiates like codeine and prescription drugs. Use of cocaine is as expected actually higher in upper class groups in terms of regular/habitual use, which actually given the comparative cost of heroin/cocaine shows the point about people with traumatic experiences using heroin to blot out psychological pain has significant merit. There is absolutely no doubt in upper classes there are people with heavy drug habits, i’ve encountered that, but many are functioning because they have the means to do so.

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Conflating psychological illness through trauma with repeated criminality is psychobabble.

People who indulge in repeated criminality use these stories of personal trauma as a crutch to justify why they made the decisions they made. They never find a shortage of gullible people willing to swallow any old nonsense. Criminals will do and say anything to get themselves out of a hole. They can't be trusted.

You can't argue with that point of view.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, MixuFixit said:

M876 my posting is blue riband stuff

You're a biscuit? Explains a lot.

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Of course. Would you accept that mental illness doesn't absolve people of their responsibilities to the rest of society?

Once again, no one has ever said it does. But since you accept the above, then it becomes not too much of a stretch to accept that, firstly someone who has mental health issues might not be making a straight up  clear headed and informed choice if they turn to drugs.

And secondly, any decent society wouldnt simply brand that person a scummy junky and dismiss any hope of rehabilitating them. 

[Melanius Mullarkey]

4 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

M876 my posting is blue riband stuff

Chocolaty with a wafery crunch?

ETA beaten to it by a junkie.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Melanius Mullarkey

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Once again, no one has ever said it does. But since you accept the above, then it becomes not too much of a stretch to accept that, firstly someone who has mental health issues might not be making a straight up  clear headed and informed choice if they turn to drugs.

And secondly, any decent society wouldnt simply brand that person a scummy junky and dismiss any hope of rehabilitating them. 

Firstly, sure, but they're still an individual with responsibilities to others. Excuses don't change this.

Secondly, junkies who commit crimes are indeed scummy junkies. They shouldn't expect to have a place in a decent society.

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

What about those who squander that opportunity?

Kill them. Once anyone makes any mistake at all just kill them. There's no hope once a mistake has been made.

I'm joking of course. Opportunity isn't in the singular. People change, if we can extend an opportunity to them and it's safe to do so then lets do it.

[oneteaminglasgow]

Firstly, sure, but they're still an individual with responsibilities to others. Excuses don't change this.

Why do you think that drug addicts have a responsibility to others, but that you have no responsibility to them?

[The Moonster]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Actually, I can categorically state that as much as I love all my kids, if any of them engaged in any criminal behaviour which caused harm to another individual (outside of self-defence), I would cut them off permanently.

Oh and no way would I allow them the easy option of blaming anyone or anything else for their crime including personal trauma.

I wasn't talking about folk bringing harm to others, I was asking if he'd let his kid die if it was a junkie, rather than try and get them off it. I find his stance there utterly bizarre.

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Kill them. Once anyone makes any mistake at all just kill them. There's no hope once a mistake has been made.

I'm joking of course. Opportunity isn't in the singular. People change, if we can extend an opportunity to them and it's safe to do so then lets do it.

 

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Kill them. Once anyone makes any mistake at all just kill them. There's no hope once a mistake has been made.

I'm joking of course. Opportunity isn't in the singular. People change, if we can extend an opportunity to them and it's safe to do so then lets do it.

That all sounds fine and dandy. What if it isn't safe to do so?

2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

Why do you think that drug addicts have a responsibility to others, but that you have no responsibility to them?

 

I have a responsibility to society as a whole. Junkies place themselves outside that society.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Do you even speak to any victims?
I would suggest that if you talk to the victims you'd find that the best assistance that society can provide for them, and indeed the bare minimum, would be to properly punish the f**k out of the criminal. End of story.
People are sick to death of seeing folk like you focussing on the criminal rather than the victim.
Interestingly you are another one conflating repeated criminality with illness. Is this a deliberate tactic?

Do I speak to victims of crime? Yes, several on a daily basis. Are they the priority yes. But isnt the best way to fix a problem to reduce the cause of it? That way you reduce the number of victims. If we began giving scripts for heroin and safe places to use it, I absolutely guarantee that almost immediately drug deaths, drug related acquisitive crime and violence will reduce. The associated cost of treating drug abuse related chronic medical conditions will also significantly reduce. Having diversionary and supportive counselling available in these treatment houses would also make access to treatment much easier. All of this would be far cheaper than locking people up.
Addiction is an illness. People feed addictions by committing crime, the two are naturally ‘conflated’.

[Bairnardo]

6 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Firstly, sure, but they're still an individual with responsibilities to others. Excuses don't change this.

Secondly, junkies who commit crimes are indeed scummy junkies. They shouldn't expect to have a place in a decent society.

What about anyone else who commits a crime? Are you saying there is no rehabilitation from crime?

If that is what you are saying, then you are a moron.

If you are saying that only drug related crimes, perpetrated by people whom you have acknowledged may be in that state, at least partly, becauee of medical issues, are irredeemable, then you....... well..... yoy are a moron.

Hmm

[Tibbermoresaint]

3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Do I speak to victims of crime? Yes, several on a daily basis. Are they the priority yes. But isnt the best way to fix a problem to reduce the cause of it? That way you reduce the number of victims. If we began giving scripts for heroin and safe places to use it, I absolutely guarantee that almost immediately drug deaths, drug related acquisitive crime and violence will reduce. The associated cost of treating drug abuse related chronic medical conditions will also significantly reduce. Having diversionary and supportive counselling available in these treatment houses would also make access to treatment much easier. All of this would be far cheaper than locking people up.
Addiction is an illness. People feed addictions by committing crime, the two are naturally ‘conflated’.

This country's fucked. Completely and utterly fucked.

[Guest Moomintroll]

This country's fucked. Completely and utterly fucked.

It is with people like you in it.