A postive case for the union

[sfha]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Because you can't think of a better leader than Nicola Sturgeon, and you won't even vote because of it. You might as well vote SNP instead of fannying about like a plukey teenager.

?????

[welshbairn]

15 minutes ago, sfha said:

?????

Who would be a better leader of our country then? Given that politicians are all stupid and you can't be bothered voting, are you absolutely sure you're not a teenager?

[ICTJohnboy]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Who would be a better leader of our country then? Given that politicians are all stupid and you can't be bothered voting, are you absolutely sure you're not a teenager?

 

He's British and proud of it, Bairn........Unlike your good self.

[Wee-Bey]

Be careful when spoiling your ballot. A popular choice of those who spoil is to draw a massive cock and balls on the paper. I am now led to believe that this is now considered a vote for Nigel Farage's Brexit party.

[sfha]

2 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

He's British and proud of it, Bairn........Unlike your good self.

I am absolutley proud to be proudly British. To be British and Scottish  is indistinguisible. If you can , please flrgive y spe,lling!

[ICTJohnboy]

1 minute ago, sfha said:

I am absolutley proud to be proudly British. To be British and Scottish  is indistinguisible. If you can , please flrgive y spe,lling!

 

I'm Scottish and European.

You can stuff yer fucking British up yer arse.

[sfha]

3 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

Be careful when spoiling your ballot. A popular choice of those who spoil is to draw a massive cock and balls on the paper. I am now led to believe that this is now considered a vote for Nigel Farage's Brexit party.

Spoiling is not drawing a pee pee on a paper.

[sfha]

3 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

I'm Scottish and European.

You can stuff yer fucking British up yer arse.

OK

[lichtgilphead]

11 minutes ago, sfha said:

 To be British and Scottish  is indistinguisible.

Obviously, it looks to me that you're trolling, but I'll bite.

I understand that a future heir to the British throne has expressed a desire for the English womens football team to win all their games at the forthcoming World Cup. That is his right, but as a representative of the British state, why does he want Scotland to lose their first game?

Can you expand on this "indistinguible" arguement, with specific reference to why Scottish football fans should support another team against Scotland because a future British monarch says so.

[Kuro]

1 hour ago, sfha said:

and that is a bad thing because...

I think it's a bad thing, but it's a legitimate position.  At least you don't deny it like most. 

I'll never understand the mindset of someone who can say every single council area in Scotland voted remain but that doesn't matter and Scotland should be forced to accept something it universally rejects because of British nationalism, but if that's your view that's fine.

[Kuro]

2 hours ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

I've read it. Three of the four EFTA members have frictionless trade with the EU. Any reason to believe the rUK wouldn't have the same?

The UK has no plans to join EFTA because it's self imposed red lines make that impossible.

[Tibbermoresaint]

12 minutes ago, Kuro said:

The UK has no plans to join EFTA because it's self imposed red lines make that impossible.

That is indeed the current position. But being in EFTA would allow frictionless trade with the EU.

[Kuro]

3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

That is indeed the current position. But being in EFTA would allow frictionless trade with the EU.

Not necessarily, though I concede that is largely possible.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, Kuro said:

Not necessarily, though I concede that is largely possible.

It happens every minute of every day.

[Kuro]

1 minute ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

It happens every minute of every day.

They're not in the customs union, and as you say 25% of the EFTA members don't have frictionless trade.

[Tibbermoresaint]

Just now, Kuro said:

They're not in the customs union, and as you say 25% of the EFTA members don't have frictionless trade.

But 75% do. 

[Kuro]

4 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

But 75% do. 

Lol it's not as frictionless as EU membership certain goods are exempted and we're not joining anyway.

[Tibbermoresaint]

1 minute ago, Kuro said:

Lol it's not as frictionless as EU membership certain goods are exempted and we're not joining anyway.

Any other straws you want to clutch at?

 

[Kuro]

20 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said:

Any other straws you want to clutch at?

 

After it leaves the EU, Britain will look much like an EFTA country: a rich economy with close links to Europe, but also seeking trade deals elsewhere. It is superficially an attractive prospect. Yet EFTA’s half-in-half-out relationship with the EU hinders its trade as much as it helps.

 

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EFTA’s flexibility in trade stems from its odd relationship with the EU. Switzerland has a series of bilateral agreements, whereas Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are part of the single market through the European Economic Area (though with opt-outs for agriculture and fisheries). Crucially, however, all are outside the EU’s customs union, an agreement which regulates tariffs charged to third countries. This allows them to strike other trade deals.

EFTA has made the most of this power. The group has 27 free-trade agreements in all corners of the world. They give its exporters access to around 900m consumers—impressive for a club which covers just 14m people. In addition, individual states have bilateral deals. Norway struggled to do a deal with China after the Nobel peace prize was awarded in 2010 to a jailed Chinese dissident. That did not stop Iceland from striking one. (China would like access to shipping routes through the Arctic as climate change melts the ice.)

A recent paper from the European Parliament found that EFTA tends to make trade deals faster than the EU. South Korea’s talks with EFTA, for instance, took half as long as those with the EU. EFTA is speedy because it can agree on a common strategy faster than the EU, which has more countries to accommodate.

Similarly, once outside the EU customs union, Britain may be able to reach faster deals. Donald Trump says he wants a trade agreement with Britain “very quickly”. However, EFTA’s experience offers cautionary lessons. Striking a trade deal quickly is a bonus; but what really matters is how good a deal it is. The parliament paper also notes that EFTA’s agreements have been “shallow” compared with the EU’s.

Analysis of the Design of Trade Agreements Database, a project led by the World Trade Institute in Bern, backs up this claim. EFTA is not a big market: its partners are happy to make deals, but they are loth to spend too much time on the finer details. Nor will they make large concessions. The relatively low quality of the deals helps explain why EFTA’s free-trade agreements still account for only about a tenth of its members’ trade.

Britain is a much bigger market than EFTA. But it will still be in a far weaker negotiating position outside the EU than as part of the single market. Moreover, EFTA also shows that, besides offering uncertain benefits, an independent trade policy brings large costs. Being outside the EU customs union is an irritant for many firms. Goods moving from EFTA to an EU member undergo “rules of origin” checks, to ensure that the exporter is not avoiding EU tariffs. Karen Helene Ulltveit-Moe of Oslo University says that to avoid cumbersome checks many Norwegian firms simply relocate to Sweden. The idea of going it alone in international trade negotiations may be more appealing than the reality.

This article appeared in the Finance and economics section of the print edition under the headline "L-EFTA behind"

 Print edition | Finance and economics

Apr 12th 2017| OSLO AND REYKJAVIK

 

 

 

 

 

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[Tibbermoresaint]

7 minutes ago, Kuro said:

Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein are part of the single market 

 

 

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Frictionless trade.